- From: Cliff Tyllick <cliff.tyllick@yahoo.com>
- Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 11:05:07 -0700 (PDT)
- To: Sam Joehl <sam.joehl@ssbbartgroup.com>, "ext@embedplus.com" <ext@embedplus.com>
- Cc: "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <1313517907.13006.YahooMailNeo@web112501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Sam, thanks for answering the question about tabs and access keys. You did far better than I could have. Tay, either audio or a transcript would work for people who cannot see. Audio would have the advantage of providing access regardless of whether the person had a screen reader. A transcript of that audio would have the advantage of providing access to the deaf/blind as well, who would be using a Braille-based interface. Either way, you do want to do as you suggest and present a rich description of the video, not just a transcript of the words spoken. Your ideas are along the right lines. To get an idea of the spectrum of possible solutions, read WCAG 2.0's success criteria 1.2.3, 1.2.5, 1.2.7, 1.2.8, and 1.2.9. Cliff ________________________________ From: Sam Joehl <sam.joehl@ssbbartgroup.com> To: ext@embedplus.com; Cliff Tyllick <cliff.tyllick@yahoo.com> Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 8:18 AM Subject: RE: Web video accessibility Tay - The issue with using keystrokes to perform actions is that many screen reading applications will trap the OnKeyDown event to allow the user to navigate to various elements on the web page. None of the keystrokes you identified worked for me because the screen reader was not passing them through to the browser. Take a look at this accessible YouTube player: http://www.povidi.com/YourTube/index.py They use the standard player but provide redundant controls which are labeled and keyboard-accessible. Notice that they place access keys on the most commonly used controls to allow activation of them using a single command. This provides the best of both worlds: controls which appear in the tab order and can also be activated via an access key. Regards, Sam Joehl Senior Accessibility Specialist SSB BART Group (703) 637-8956 sam.joehl@ssbbartgroup.com http://www.ssbbartgroup.com Accessibility-On-Demand "There are no disabled people; only disabled technology." - Hugh Herr, board member, No Barriers Foundation From:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of EmbedPlus Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:09 AM To: Cliff Tyllick Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org Subject: Re: Web video accessibility [Oops, I forgot to add links to what I was referring to in the in the previous email. Please use this version] Cliff, Thanks for the detailed response and analysis! I'll address some of your comments. >Does it support captioning? While the annotations could be used to manually input captions, EmbedPlus serves as an extension of the YouTube player, which inherently supports captioning. I suspect you already know this though. The main goal of the annotations feature was to provide a means for third-parties to embed a video on their websites or blogs, and explicitly add their own timed text without having to be the YouTube user owning the video. >Does it support video description? You mentioned the idea of opening a script document for those users that cannot see. I suppose you propose that idea so that a screen reader could be applied on said document. What do you think about the idea of overlaying audio clips instead? That is, just like there is timed text (annotations), one could have audio clips that are played at given times when needed to describe what's going on? The video playback could be paused during these audio clips in order to prevent mixing with the video sound. >Tabs You make a very good point about tabs and we will explore this. Along these lines, we have instead played with the idea of hot keys for a version of the player that we built for a free application found to be quite ripe for the player. It's a video-based pronunciation dictionary and word usage API we are developing that leverages the features offered by the player; check out: "How do you pronounce and use." ( http://www.embedplus.com/dictionary/how-to-pronounce-words-and-use-them.aspx ) You can read details on the page if you want, but in short, a few users had asked if they could just push the left and right arrow keys for PREV and NEXT respectively. We implemented this general idea for the left side navigation buttons on the version of the player used by the application. You can try it out on a couple common examples and see what I mean. - How do you pronounce and use gyro (in video) - http://www.embedplus.com/dictionary/how-to-pronounce-gyro-and-use-it - How do you pronounce and use salmon (in video) - http://www.embedplus.com/dictionary/how-to-pronounce-salmon-and-use-it Beyond PREV and NEXT, hitting the 'P' key plays the video, 'S' starts slow motion and 'R' invokes replay. It would be nice to hear your thoughts on hot keys versus tabs. I figure they achieve similar things, but hot keys provide the added benefit of direct access - i.e., no need to go in order of tabs. Thanks again, -Tay ________________________________ From: "Cliff Tyllick" <cliff.tyllick@yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 10:52 AM To: "EmbedPlus" <ext@embedplus.com> Subject: Re: Web video accessibility Tay, the link works for me in Mac OS X (10.5.8) and Firefox 5.0.1. I turned off my ad and pop-up blockers before starting this test. Off the top of my head, I can think of these main issues for accessibility of a video player: * Does it support captioning? (If I cannot hear, is it possible to display the text of the script or transcript as it is being said? It appears that EmbedPlus does support captioning, although the information in the captions includes very little of what is in the sound track, and the sound track does not include everything that is in the captions.) * Does it support video description? (If I cannot see, can I open a document that, interwoven into the script or transcript, gives me a rich description of what is going on?) * If I have no mouse, or if I cannot operate the mouse - and especially if I am blind - can I still get to and operate the controls? (Will the tab key take me from one control to the next, and can I operate each of them with the space bar?) * Assuming I can get to and operate the controls from the keyboard, can I tell which control I am on at any one time and what I can expect it to do? (Are form controls labeled in a way that allows my my screen reader to announce the labels to me and allows me to recognize their function?) * Assuming I can get to, recognize, and operate the form controls, is the tab order correct? (Does the sequence of controls I encounter when I hit the tab key match the order in which these controls appear? As shown below, it does not.) When I get to this page, nothing seems to happen when I hit the tab key. To jumpstart my review of your viewer itself, I used the mouse to start the video on the right (the plus view, not the standard). When I did, the captioning window opened by default. From there, here is what happened with each successive pressing of the tab key. When I indicate a function - for example, Next - that means that the function's control was highlighted by a yellow box. In this list, I've also indicated whether the control was operable with the space bar when highlighted: 1. nothing 2. nothing 3. Next (not operable) 4. nothing 5. Previous (operable) 6. nothing 7. Slow (operable) 8. nothing 9. Replay (operable, but does same thing as "Previous") 10. nothing 11. nothing 12. nothing 13. Get (operable - opens in a new window, but nothing in the new window is highlighted and the first time I press tab clears the contents from both "Code" fields) 14. nothing 15. Full Screen (operable, but then Tab no longer works) 16. More (operable, but there is no focus indicator on the new screen. And would I understand where you have taken me - what am I expected to be able to do here?) 17. nothing 18. Zoom (operable, but I have no control over the area zoomed in on. I can't select the area to zoom in on, and I can't pan the shot once I have zoomed in) 19. nothing 20. Read (operable, but where am I?) 21. nothing 22. nothing 23. Close Caption window (not operable) 24. nothing (but cycle is restarting; note that the next three actions are same as first three) 25. nothing 26. nothing 27. Next I could not get out of this particular set of controls except by one irreproducible event that led to a highlighted progress slider. When I got to the slider, I couldn't operate it. And if I ever got to the other controls in that top row - Start/Stop, Sound, CC (which, apparently, will produce a transcript?), 360p, and Watch Later - I couldn't tell that I had. So your viewer looks promising, but it also seems to me that you have more work to do to make it accessible. Cliff ________________________________ From:"accessys@smart.net" <accessys@smart.net> To: EmbedPlus <ext@embedplus.com> Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 9:20 AM Subject: Re: Web video accessibility the test view was linux Ubuntu 8.4 and the browser was lynx and the propaganda was all the stuff saying how great Embed was. actually I didn't expect it to work, how do you get a basically video format to work in an audio/text system of viewing. Bob On Mon, 15 Aug 2011, EmbedPlus wrote: > Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 00:58:55 -0400 > From: EmbedPlus <ext@embedplus.com> > To: accessys@smart.net > Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > Subject: Re: Web video accessibility > > Bob, > > We have zero have any ads on the page, so I'm not sure if you are looking > at the right page. Not sure about the "propaganda" thing as well -- given > my understanding of the word. > > What could really help is if you could you give me some info on your chosen > browser on linux. Information about the linux distribution would also > help. > > -Tay > > ---------------------------------------- > From: accessys@smart.net > Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 11:01 PM > To: "EmbedPlus" <ext@embedplus.com> > Subject: Re: Web video accessibility > > "does not recognize your browser" > > get lots of advertising and propaganda > but no action > > Bob > > On Sun, 14 Aug 2011, EmbedPlus wrote: > >> Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 22:52:13 -0400 >> From: EmbedPlus >> To: accessys@smart.net, Karen Lewellen >> Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org >> Subject: Re: Web video accessibility >> Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 02:52:57 +0000 >> Resent-From: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org >> >> Which link? >> Here http://www.embedplus.com/ ? I haven't seen any problems on my >> side. >> >> ---------------------------------------- >> From: accessys@smart.net >> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 9:34 PM >> To: "Karen Lewellen" >> Subject: Re: Web video accessibility >> >> got pretty much the same error and I'm running linux >> >> Bob >> >> On Sun, 14 Aug 2011, Karen Lewellen wrote: >> >>> Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 21:21:26 -0400 (EDT) >>> From: Karen Lewellen >>> To: EmbedPlus >>> Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org >>> Subject: Re: Web video accessibility >>> Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 01:21:53 +0000 >>> Resent-From: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org >>> >>> I just checked on this, do you realize the link here produces an unable >> to >>> connect to remote host error? >>> Karen >>> >>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2011, EmbedPlus wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Normal >>>> 0 >>>> >>>> >>>> false >>>> false >>>> false >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I'm the co-developer a YouTube third-party tool called >>>> EmbedPlus. It enhances the standard >>>> YouTube player with many features that aren't inherently supported. >> We've >>>> been getting lots of feedback regarding >>>> the accessibility benefits of some of these features like movable > zoom, >> >>>> slow >>>> motion, and even third-party annotations. >>>> As the tool continues to grow in popularity, the importance of its >>>> accessibility rises. I decided to do some research and found the WAI >>>> Interest >>>> group to be a major proponent of accessibility on the web. If anyone >> has >>>> time to take a look at >>>> EmbedPlus and share feedback that could help improve the tool, please >> do. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Here's the link: http://www.embedplus.com/ >>>> . If needed, I can provide further details. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank you in advance, >>>> >>>> Tay >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> > > >
Received on Tuesday, 16 August 2011 18:05:37 UTC