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Re: Accessible content management system

From: Harry Loots <harry.loots@ieee.org>
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 13:00:42 +0200
Message-ID: <CA++-QFdsWEnv_cm6L8y5QGBK8S07UA4xz3gxWK6cjGNgWjrBYw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ian Sharpe <isforums@manx.net>
Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Before I add a new product into the mix, I think it's worth clarifying
whether we are talking about 'accessible content management system', thus
meaning input and admin mechanisms are accessible; or whether we are
referring to 'accessible output' (rendered HTML) of cms products, the latter
being possible for almost any cms. (It's mainly up to HTML developers to
make this happen.)

Insofar as accessible cms is concerned, I discovered 'WebGUI' (
www.webgui.org) a few years ago while consulting for a UK Govt Agency and it
appeared to be one of the most accessible in terms of input (looked at
various incl. Joomla, DotNetNuke, etc) at the time. And though the project
didn't go ahead - the agency opted for the safe expensive way non-accessible
solution, where they would be able to blame a product vendor (e.g.:
SharePoint/MS)...

I also had meetings with Tavis Parker (tavis@plainblack.com) and some of the
WebGUI developers and they had a very positive and refreshing attitude
towards things accessible.

Warm regards
Harry


On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Ian Sharpe <isforums@manx.net> wrote:

> Hi Phil
>
> Totally agree and would also re-emphasise the point that jim made in
> relation to this point as well as module or extension development. No
> matter
> how well designed and conformant a CMS might be, it is always going to be
> the case that the author of any given site must also consider the theme
>  and
> any modules or extensions it uses in order to ensure a site is accessible.
>
> The point I was making with regard to Plone, (and Drupal), is more that
> both
> of these communities has expressed a strong desire or even commitment to
> improve the accessiblity of their platforms which is encouraging. As it is
> also encouraging to hear that blind people are successfully administrating
> sites using Drupal or Contao for example.
>
> Cheers
> Ian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Phil Evans
> Sent: 04 August 2011 07:52
> To: flybynight
> Cc: 'Terry Dean'; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Accessible content management system
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just a very small contribution, as I don't use CMS at all:
>
> > As does Plone which also looks very good.
>
> Is this true? I have not used Plone from the developer point of view, but a
> website which I visit regularly uses Plone. If I feed pages frmo that
> website to the W3C HTML validator they fail -- only a couple of relatively
> minor errors, but nonetheless I (naively?) would hope that a CMS which
> aspires to serve accessible content will at least provide valid content.
>
> As a side issue, which you're probably all aware of, no CMS could ever
> guarantee accessibilty on its own. For example, a (plone-based) site I have
> used chose red on green as its colour scheme; ignoring that fact that
> red/green colour-blindness (very common) would render the page unusable!
>
>
> Phil
>
>
> >
> > Typo3 would seem to be quite usable apparently although I haven't
> > spent any time looking into this at this stage.
> >
> > However, you may well want to take a look at contao:
> > http://www.contao.org
> >
> > Which looks very good from my initial view.
> >
> > I haven't validated it yet but it seemed very usable with only the
> > keyboard and has a nice clean and simple interface, while still having
> > all the features you'd expect to see in a leading CMS. It even has a
> > load of shortcut keys that are described in the main admin screen. You
> > can try the online demo from their home page.
> >
> > I'd be interested to hear what you and others think?
> >
> > Incidentally, have you looked at DNN recently? I'm guessing it hasn't
> > got any better but I do know they were keen on conformance with W3C
> > guidelines, although which ones I'm not exactly sure.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Ian
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org] On
> > Behalf Of Terry Dean
> > Sent: 03 August 2011 21:14
> > To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> > Subject: Re: Accessible content management system
> >
> > Hi Ian,
> >
> > If you do find one that conforms to the W3C Web Accessibility
> > guidelines please let me know. Its one thing to claim that a CMS is
> > compliant and another to actually be accessible.
> >
> > You only need to run a few accessibility tools over these CMSs to find
> > that they are generally full of problems.
> >
> > I dont claim to have the answers and I do not build these systems but
> > I can understand how difficult they must be to make compliant. I
> > remember trying to modify DotNetNuke in 2000 in order to validate it
> > to XHTML Strict 1.0 and gave up in the end.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Terry
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ian Sharpe"<isforums@manx.net>
> > To: "'Terry Dean'"<Terry.Dean@chariot.net.au>;<w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 6:32 PM
> > Subject: RE: Accessible content management system
> >
> >
> >> Hi Terry
> >>
> >> While I understand where you're coming from and based on the feedback
> >> I've received so far, would accept your belief that at this time,
> >> such a solution does not exist, I would challenge your statement that
> >> this is not a serious question.
> >>
> >> Much of the web these days is generated through CMSs and this is only
> >> going to increase over time. One of the founding principals of the
> >> web for me at least is giving everyone the opportunity to have their
> >> say and hear what everyone else is saying. It follows that if members
> >> of the disabled or less technically competant communities are unable
> >> to voice their opinions and thoughts as easily as those without any
> >> barriers to access and author content (particularly when it's in
> >> relation to accessing and authoring content), this voice will become
> >> quieter when it should be getting louder.
> >>
> >> Ensuring that there is at least one accessible and feature rich CMS
> >> would therefore seem vital in terms of the web's accessibility to me.
> >>
> >> It is therefore a very serious question and while there doesn't
> >> appear to currently be a single solution, I hope that you are at
> >> least encouraged, even if only a little, by the comments others have
> made.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> ian
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> -------------------------
>
> Phil Evans,
> Swift Development Scientist
> X-ray and Observational Astronomy Group, University of Leicester
>
> Tel: +44 (0)116 252 5059
> Mobile: +44 (0)7780 980240
> pae9@star.le.ac.uk
> http://www.star.le.ac.uk/~pae9
> http://www.swift.ac.uk
>
> Follow me as a Swift scientist on Twitter: @swift_phil
> http://www.star.le.ac.uk/~pae9/twitter
>
>
>
Received on Thursday, 4 August 2011 11:01:11 GMT

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