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Re: Layout Tables vs. Style Sheets

From: Harry Loots <harry.loots@ieee.org>
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 15:31:49 +0100
To: james.homme@highmark.com
CC: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Message-Id: <20081007143149.M3227@ieee.org>

Hi Jim
you sent this to me only - bet it was meant for the group ;) 

in fact, IE 4 had limited support; better in IE 5 (launched in 99); and if one
used XHTML 1.0/HTML 4.01 Strict, really good, if not perfect support in IE 5.5
(Launched July 2000). 

I am trying to rack my brains when i made the complete switchover, avoiding
layout tables completely??? it may have been round 2000; and i definitely have
a site built sans tables dated 2001... 

Kind regards
Harry

Mob: +44 7826 926 994

~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~
 We do not inherit the Earth from our Parents-
 We are simply Borrowing it from our Children!

 Join 'Consumer Resistance Against Packaging' at
http://apps.new.facebook.com/causes/57239?recruiter_id=12448357
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---------- Original Message -----------
From: james.homme@highmark.com
To: "Harry Loots" <harry.loots@ieee.org>
Sent: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 10:07:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Layout Tables vs. Style Sheets

> Hi,
> According to my memory, it was Internet Explorer 6 that made it 
> practical
 for developers to use style sheets instead of table 
> layout, but the
 standard for doing so in Cascading Style Sheets had 
> been available in 1999.
 I am trying to find material that verifies 
> my memory though, so don't put
 me on the board.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Jim
> 
> James D Homme, Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc.,
> james.homme@highmark.com, 412-544-1810
> 
> "The difference between those who get what they wish for and those 
> who
 don't is action. Therefore, every action you take is a complete
>  success,regardless of the results." -- Jerrold Mundis
 Highmark 
> internal only: For usability and accessibility:
 
> http://highwire.highmark.com/sites/iwov/hwt093/
> 
>                                                                            
>              "Harry Loots"                                           
>       
             <harry.loots@ieee                                
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             Sent by:                  "w3c-wai-
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>                                                                            
>                                                                    
> Subject 
             10/07/2008 09:50          Re: Layout Tables 
> vs. Style Sheets  
             AM                                   
>                          
>                                                                            
>                                                                            
>                                                                            
>                                                                            
>                                                                            
> 
> WCAG 1.0 became an official recommendation in May 1999, containing 
> the
 following guideline:
> 
> Guideline 5.  Create tables that transform gracefully.
> Next guideline: 6 Previous guideline: 4 Go to contents
> Ensure that tables have necessary markup to be transformed by 
> accessible
 browsers and other user agents.
> 
> Tables should be used to mark up truly tabular information ("data 
> tables").
 Content developers should avoid using them to lay out 
> pages ("layout
 tables").
 Tables for any use also present special 
> problems to users of screen readers
> (refer to checkpoint 10.3).
> 
> etc...
> 
> Kind regards
> Harry
> 
> Mob: +44 7826 926 994
> 
> ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~
>  We do not inherit the Earth from our Parents-
>  We are simply Borrowing it from our Children!
> 
>  Join 'Consumer Resistance Against Packaging' at
> http://apps.new.facebook.com/causes/57239?recruiter_id=12448357
> ~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~
> 
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: David Dorward <david@dorward.me.uk>
> To: "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Sent: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 14:37:33 +0100
> Subject: Re: Layout Tables vs. Style Sheets
> 
> > Patti Burke-Lund wrote:
> > >
> > > I was wondering if anyone could share their insight with regard to
> > > layout tables and accessibility, as well as when the switch occurred
> > > from layout tables to CSS (i.e., how many years this has been a
> > > recommended practice).  Any thoughts are greatly appreciated, as they
> > > will be added to our class discussion board with proper credit given
> > > as €œguest speakers.€
> > >
> > The classic document on the subject for managers appears to have cropped
> > up in late 2003 ...
> >
> > http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/
> >
> > I'd assume that would be a few years after web developers at the
> > standards end of the curve started to pick up on them, which corresponds
> > to when I vaguely remember making the switch (although I was a hobbiest
> > at the time).
> >
> > So I'd say its been recommended and practical since around the turn
> > of the century.
> >
> > --
> > David Dorward
> > http://dorward.me.uk/
> ------- End of Original Message -------
------- End of Original Message -------
Received on Tuesday, 7 October 2008 14:32:32 GMT

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