W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > January to March 2006

RE: Reasons for not using <noscript> (was: Google Adsense ... not accessible)

From: Colin Lieberman <clieberman@dralegal.org>
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 08:54:03 -0800
To: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: 20060203115422.GA72620@mail26f.sbc-webhosting.com>

>> How do you create a page that that submits on changing a select
>> element, but doesn't have a submit button.

> You make the script button disappear once your script is confident
> that it can perform the jump-y thing, it's trivial.

Jim - You are 100% right on: any fancy javascript stuff (things like no
submit button) should be done with the script itself. Scripting to remove
the mark-up for the button is three lines, absolutely trivial.

However, I would add a caution even to this approach though, because in the
example under discussion, the form submission is triggered by a change event
on a control, which is (IMO) poor design: many users who *will* have
scripting enable want to be able to review their form submission prior to
submission. Or, in the case of menus, a non-visual user will need to scroll
through every item in the list before making a selection, and submitting the
form via a change event breaks the form for these users.

Colin Lieberman
IT Manager
Disability Rights Advocates
2001 Center Street, Third Floor
Berkeley, California  94704-1204

510 665 8644 x.134 (Tel)
510 665 8716 (TTY)
510 665 8511 (Fax)

-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org] On Behalf
Of Jim Ley
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 1:00 AM
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Re: Reasons for not using <noscript> (was: Google Adsense ... not
accessible)


On 2/2/06, David Woolley <david@djwhome.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> How do you create a page that that submits on changing a select
> element, but doesn't have a submit button.

You make the script button disappear once your script is confident
that it can perform the jump-y thing, it's trivial.

> Note that the code to delete the submit button is
> relatively complicated and could, itself, fail.

And if it fails, the submit button is left, no-one has been left
inaccessible, however if you put inside noscript many people have.  I
don't really understand why you want advocate that?

> > helpful, it would be much more helpful if people were simply told to
> > ensure their page works when is scripting is disabled.
>
> But that is typically not a client requirement, so a programmer typically
> has no budget for doing that.

There is budget required! it doesn't cost more.

> I would suggest that
> a lot of use of <noscript> is indicative of people doing their best within
> constraints.

It's an indication of blindly following poor recommendations and poor
accessibility checkers and having the mistaken belief that they are
accessible.  I don't think that's good, it does nothing to improve
their understanding of accessibility it does nothing to teach them how
to provide the same without impacting either cost or timeliness of
delivery.

Jim.
Received on Friday, 3 February 2006 16:54:31 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Tuesday, 19 July 2011 18:14:24 GMT