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RE: looking for an accessible data table:

From: T. V. Raman <tvraman@us.ibm.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:49:35 -0800
Message-ID: <16919.35391.432464.724109@bubbles.almaden.ibm.com>
To: accessys@smart.net
Cc: jim@jimthatcher.com, wai-ig@cookiecrook.com, w3c-wai-ig@w3.org, wrwilliams@fs.fed.us


Actually, try that URL
> This (http://tinyurl.com/3tx3q) is a wonderful example of a
complex table
in Emacspeak using W3, and play with the various alternative
display choices using XSL


>>>>> "Access" == Access Systems <accessys@smart.net> writes:
    Access> On Thu, 17 Feb 2005, Jim Thatcher wrote:
    Access> 
    >>
> This (http://tinyurl.com/3tx3q) is a wonderful example of a
    >> complex table and it is remarkably well coded - as far as
    >> JAWS is concerned.
    Access> 
    Access> but this is rendered horribly in LYNX using
    Access> emacspeak.
    Access> 
    Access> it is title, then long lines of numbers with no
    Access> rationale form or pattern that can be decerned
    Access> 
    >> Other than that omission, JAWS reads this table
    >> perfectly. That amazes me; I have assumed up until now,
    >> that that you should use TH (with/without scope) OR use
    >> headers/id markup, but not both. This uses both and it
    >> works well - for JAWS.
    Access> 
    Access> there are other screen readers than JAWS and there
    Access> are other operating systems besides M$
    Access> 
    >> Even though JAWS reads the row headings automatically
    >> (because they are in column 1), I think this sample table
    >> should have TH, scope=row, on all the
    Access> 
    Access> in LYNX there are no rows or columns just a mess of
    Access> raw datum
    Access> 
    >> > Access Systems wrote: >> no and it is because (at least
    >> in Linux/LYNX)...
    >> >
    >> > haven't looked too hard at that page's markup, but
    >> assuming that it is > correct (properly defined headings,
    >> scope, etc), is the problem you're > describing not one of
    >> the user agent (in this case lynx) rather than > the page
    >> author?
    >> 
    >> I think you've nailed it Patrick; that's why I asked what
    >> user agent Bob was using when he experienced the
    >> problem. Now that we know it's Lynx, I'm not surprised he
    >> had trouble with a data table.
    Access> 
    Access> but LYNX is a popular TEXT web browser and it is
    Access> current not obsolete tech.
    Access> 
    >> To follow on the 'correct markup' comment, he uses a
    >> technique I haven't seen before. Scope is used
    >> appropriately for most of the cells, and headers/ID is
    >> added on a few of the cells. I've only used these
    >> techniques independently (either all scope, or all
    >> headers/ID) but not both combined. I'm on a Mac at home
    >> and haven't had a chance to test this at work yet, but I'd
    >> be curious to know if screen readers handled this
    >> technique consistently.
    Access> 
    Access> evidently not.
    Access> 
    Access> Bob
    Access> 
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-- 
Best Regards,
--raman
------------------------------------------------------------
T. V. Raman:  PhD (Cornell University)
IBM Research: Human Language Technologies
Architect:    RDC --- Conversational And Multimodal WWW Standards
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Received on Saturday, 19 February 2005 18:50:22 GMT

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