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RE: accessible banking:

From: Access Systems <accessys@smart.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 11:50:47 -0500 (EST)
To: Kurt_Mattes@bankone.com
cc: david.poehlman@handsontechnologeyes.com, kpierce2000@earthlink.net, John.Carpenter@pdms.com, w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0502011144050.4087@smart.net>

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 Kurt_Mattes@bankone.com wrote:

> What I am thinking about is how the poverty issue impacts the security issue.
> I describe it as a poverty issue since the statement "The law should read
> that anyone should be able to access and fully use any tehnology appropriate
> for a task and which fits their needs." includes people without disabilities
> and I believe is an attempt to include less economically fortunate members
> of the communities addressed by the W3C WAI Guidelines.  Poverty is not an
> accessibility issue unique to these communities as it impacts many outside
> of these communities.

but people with disabilities are more likely to be below the poverty level

> The problem arises when an Internet user fortunate enough to have an early
> 1990's era system attempts to visit a secure site.  This system is probably

or those persons not using the Windows operating system, such as Mac,s,
Linux and a whole range of open source products

> not capable of supporting current encryption standards.  Does the secure site
> owner have an obligation to provide this user access at the risk of
> compromising security?

however demanding that a user purchase an expensive piece of specific
software is not a security issue.

> Or does the "...appropriate for a task..." part of
> this statement mean this era browser would be exempt from the site owners
> obligation?  And if we make this exception, is it not also fair to say
> users of "free" browsers capable of supporting current encryption standards
> and 'modeling' IE browser behavior have access to any site optimized for
> accessibility with an IE browser?
>
> Given that non-Internet Explorer browsers are now able to 'model' the behavior
> of an Internet Explorer browser, a distinction between the product
> Internet Explorer and the behavior of this product needs to be made.  To say
> a site is only accessible with an IE browser can mean two different things.
> Either the product Internet Explorer or the behavior of an IE browser is
> needed.  "Free" browsers able to 'model' Internet Explorer behavior provide
> the means for less economically fortunate users to access sites optimized
> for the Internet Explorer browser without incurring any expense or exposure
> to any of the Internet Explorer security issues often cited.

however how does this allow people using specific adaptive software use
the site,  for example a cheap (poor) visually impaired user. accessing
the site via Linux operating system, Lynx browser, and emacspeak text to
audio adaptive software.

508 (as does title II and III of ADA) prohibits requiring individuals to
purchase anything other users do  not have to purchase.. if requiring IE,
does that mean that the secure site must provide free a copy of JAWS ???

Bob

>
>
> Kurt Mattes
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: david poehlman [mailto:david.poehlman@handsontechnologeyes.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:37 AM
> To: Mattes, Kurt (Bank One); kpierce2000@earthlink.net;
> John.Carpenter@pdms.com; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: Re: accessible banking:
>
>
> I guess so but could you ellaborate on your question.
>
> Johnnie Apple Seed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Kurt_Mattes@bankone.com>
> To: <david.poehlman@handsontechnologeyes.com>; <kpierce2000@earthlink.net>;
> <John.Carpenter@pdms.com>; <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:22 AM
> Subject: RE: accessible banking:
>
>
>
> Does "The law should read that anyone should be able to access
> and fully use any tehnology appropriate for a task and which fits their
> needs." include any browser capable of connecting to the Internet?
>
> Kurt Mattes
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]On
> Behalf Of david poehlman
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:10 AM
> To: Kelly Pierce; John Carpenter; wai-ig list
> Subject: Re: accessible banking:
>
>
>
> Kelly and all, the laws are flawed in this fashion.  they assume lack of
> people function when the issue is lack of technology function.  I just read
> a piece on this in fact from the ncd called "righting the ada" which sadly
> carries this mal assumption forward.  90 ercent or more of the issues we
> face are artificial and the sooner they are dealt with, the better.  It is
> as you point out 2005 and was not right in any age to task technology with
> setting the tone for people's lives but rather technology should be tasked
> to serve us.
>
> I did state in my message that this has nothing to do with law, but perhaps
> I was in error.  The law should read that anyone should be able to access
> and fully use any tehnology appropriate for a task and which fits their
> needs.  There are many places in the country and in the world where is is a
> mis fit and always will be.
>
> Johnnie Apple Seed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kelly Pierce" <kpierce2000@earthlink.net>
> To: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@handsontechnologeyes.com>; "John
> Carpenter" <John.Carpenter@pdms.com>; "wai-ig list" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:03 AM
> Subject: Re: accessible banking:
>
>
>
>
> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@handsontechnologeyes.com>
> To: "Kelly Pierce" <kpierce2000@earthlink.net>; "John Carpenter"
> <John.Carpenter@pdms.com>; "wai-ig list" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 7:42 AM
> Subject: Re: accessible banking:
>
>
> > Part of accessibility is choice.  I should be able to access any web site
> > with any combination of user agent and technology accessibly and it be
> > accessible.  Is this a tall order?  Yes, is it necessary, yes.
>
> **Not under the Americans with Disabilities Act.  As long as the means of
> communication made available to you is effective, I.e. allowing you to
> complete a certain task, then the bank has fulfilled its access obligations.
> Under the ADA, courts view access by functional performance, not by process.
> they also don't consider optimal or preferential means but the means that is
> sufficient to complete the specified task.  You may choose not to use
> Internet Explorer, but in 2005 I have not seen an argument saying that it is
> unreasonable or insufficient to require people with disabilities only to use
> Internet Explorer to access online banking services.  It seems like you want
> access beyond what is required beyond that of the ADA.
>
> Kelly
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Tuesday, 1 February 2005 16:51:30 GMT

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