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Re: Skip navigation in WCAG-2

From: david poehlman <david.poehlman@handsontechnologeyes.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:05:58 -0400
Message-ID: <00f801c4968f$48507a60$6401a8c0@DAVIDPC>
To: "Juan Ulloa" <julloa@bcc.ctc.edu>, <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>

actually, assistive technologies can obtain info from markup and if
judicious use of headings and other mark up is used, this becomes trivial.

Johnnie Apple Seed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Juan Ulloa" <julloa@bcc.ctc.edu>
To: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 12:19 PM
Subject: RE: Skip navigation in WCAG-2

I guess it is more of a usability issue rather than accessibility.  So
in that regard I agree with you.

In practice though, I think skip-to-content, as I prefer to call it, is
a good practice for any website not just for text readers but also for
folks who still like to use text only browsers.    I don't necessarily
see user agents being able to figure that out for users unless there is
some type of markup in the code telling them apart. Because of this, I
think the responsibility of adding skip-to-content links will continue
to be up to the person who creates the site.

Whether this is accessibility or a usability thing is what I have
concerns with.   But I'd prefer not to start another 'usability vs.
accessibility' thread.   :) [smiley face]

Juan C. Ulloa   [ x2487 ]

>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]
>  Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 4:34 AM
>  To: Jesper Tverskov; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>  Subject: Re: Skip navigation in WCAG-2
>  I think we can do away with skip nav altogether.  We need something
>  the lines of provide navigation to main areas of content and to those
>  areas
>  of content that aide in navigation etc.
>  Johnnie Apple Seed
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Jesper Tverskov" <jesper.tverskov@mail.tele.dk>
>  To: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>  Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 5:46 AM
>  Subject: Skip navigation in WCAG-2
>  The meaning of "Skip navigation" is almost completely changed in the
>  proposal for WCAG-2. Basically a "until user agents" has just been
>  dropped but in this case it changes the meaning of the guideline.
>  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
>  In WCAG-1:
>  "13.6 Group related links, identify the group (for user agents), and,
>  until user agents do so, provide a way to bypass the group. [Priority
>  3]"
>  In WCAG-1 it is clear that "skip navigation" is regarded as a user
>  issue. Authors should not bother about it, or just a little, the day
>  user agents can do the job.
>  This is a good approach. Already today a browser like Mozilla has a
>  "Find as you type" feature. It can be set up to work for links only
>  using the first letter of link text as access key making it extremely
>  easy to move around for keyboard users even making HTML Accesskey
>  irrelevant.
>  Most screen readers have or should have ways to go to next word, next
>  sentence, next paragraph, next heading, next list, end of list of
>  etc. It is much better for users of screen readers to become experts
>  using these generic methods for moving around that can be used at
>  websites than to rely on "skip navigation" implemented by millions of
>  web page authors never using it themselves.
>  "Skip navigation" should not be an author issue but should remain a
>  agent issue. Making it an author issue is a text book example of how
>  to make the web more accessible. Accessibility should as much as
>  possible be handled by user agents and as little as possible depend
>  the acts of millions of web page authors.
>  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
>  In WCAG-2, Guideline 2.4, Level 2 Success criteria:
>  "Large blocks of material that are repeated on multiple pages, such
>  navigation menus with more than 8 or more links, can be bypassed by
>  people who use screen readers or who navigate via keyboard or
>  interface. [V]"
>  and in HTML Techniques for WCAG 2.0, 9.6 Skipping link groups, says:
>  "Include a link that allows users to skip over grouped links."
>  "If there are five or more navigation links and/or other content that
>  comes before the main content of the page then the skip navigation
>  technique should probably be used. If there are twenty links and
>  elements before the main content, one of these techniques definitely
>  should be used. The link should be at or very near the top of the
>  it is a link with a local target just before the beginning of the
>  content."
>  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
>  Note the difference: Guidelines, WCAG-2, talk about 8 links,
>  WCAG-2, talk about 5 and 20 links.
>  *** User agents are no longer mentioned, it has become an author
>  only.
>  By dropping "until user agents", in this case, WCAG-2 comes in line
>  Section 508 also regarding "skip navigation" as an author issue. This
>  makes the proposal for WCAG-2 just as plain wrong as Section 508 has
>  always been.
>  WCAG-1 was right about "skip navigation" being mainly a user agent
>  issue.
>  Best regards,
>  Jesper Tverskov
>  www.smackthemouse.com
Received on Thursday, 9 September 2004 17:05:08 UTC

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