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Re: Note to listowners

From: Steven Dale <sdale@stevendale.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:17:10 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <3480.129.174.36.240.1081358230.squirrel@www.stevendale.com>
To: <joeclark@joeclark.org>
Cc: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>

Excuse me?
Name calling?  If...

>>    Steven Dale said:
>>    And isnt that what we are after here?  Accessibility?
>
> Joe Clark said:
> If you have a choice between a dog of a browser that doesn't work with
> pixel-sized fonts, found in real-world sites, and a newer browser that
> does (*and* has tabbed browsing, popup blocking, better standards
> compliance, and the like), why would you go with the dog?
>
> Now, if you *don't* have a choice, that's *different*. Let's just stop
> pretending that the Web equals IE for Windows.
>
I am NOT saying IE for Windows = WEB,  I am saying MOST use IE for Windows
to browse the web.  I think we NEED to write for the lowest common
deniminator.  If no one still uses program x, then we dont have to worry
about it, but if 1 person HAS to use program y, then it should be taken
into account.

>> Sounds to me like many so called experts on here want the prestige
>> without doing the work.
>
> I do quite a lot of work, thank you very much.
>
I know you do, I own a copy of your book, and that was why I was
dissappointed to see your comments.  But, I may have taken your obnoxious
attitude a bit too seriously here.  I did enjoy it while reading the book.


is name calling, then yes I did.  IF however pointing out that
accessibility needs should be met with what we have to work with today and
that the purpose of this list and the WAI in general is to promote
accessiblity, is NOT what is expected here then I am terribly sorry.  I
did not start with the attitude here, Joe Clark did.  I just called him to
the mat and he pinned himself with HIS comments.

Is it too much to for people on here to understand why they are here?  If
it is to promote the latest technology then there certainly are many other
lists to be on.  If it is to promote accessibility then you HAVE to work
for what is out there being used.  If you wonder why WCAG is not getting
anything more than lipservice from businesses, then re-read the thread on
skip navigation.  It went in a complete 360 degree circle in 3 days!  Now
Joe Clark wants everyone out there to upgrade to the latest greatest. 
Well some physically can not do that (system requirements, funding etc),
others lose features required but not supported in the latest software
packages.

AND I STILL CANT GET THIS OUT OF MY HEAD.....
from a member of the WAI IG LISTSERV:
> I have said this before on this list and I will say it again here in
> this  context.  First, there are quite a variety of at out there and
> asking people  to test them by learning and using them is considered by
> many to be way too  much.

I am trying to advocate accessibility but somehow I didnt think I would
need to do that HERE!
-Steve


Joe Clark said:
>
> The next time anyone dares to criticize me for being [whatever] on this
> esteemed List-- and, you know, sometimes WAI employees actually *call me
>  on the phone* about that-- I would, for the record, point out that
> Steven  Dale got to call me names twice in the last day, with impunity.
>
> If I'm not mistaken, such actions violate the requirement to "Treat
> other  list members with respect" <http://www.w3.org/WAI/IG/>. At least
> the  parties involved aren't forwarding my private E-mail to the list.
>
> The next time WCAG WG gets up in arms because I state that their
> proposals are crap, please keep this message in mind. You all seem much
> happier to let people defame my by name than to let me state and explain
> why your proposals stink. Everywhere else, WCAG WG prizes being
> nicey-nicey over  being accurate (to the extent that members can
> reiterate untruths for  months as long as they're every so cheerful
> about it), but here's  somebody who's being outright nasty and it's
> simply accepted.
>
> I always knew I was right all along that there are Approved Persons on
> the -IG and -GL lists, plus another group we could call "everybody
> else." There's increasing evidence I'm in a category of one.
>
> Don't suppose there's something wrong here?
>
> --
>
>     Joe Clark | joeclark@joeclark.org
>     Accessibility <http://joeclark.org/access/>
>     Expect criticism if you top-post
Received on Wednesday, 7 April 2004 13:17:42 UTC

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