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RE : RE : link in new window debate

From: yoan SIMONIAN <yoan.simonian@snv.jussieu.fr>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:54:28 +0100
Message-Id: <200311191256.hAJCuClO049886@drum.snv.jussieu.fr>
To: "'Marjolein Katsma'" <hgnje001@sneakemail.com>, <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>


>*) I've seen some admirable efforts to include "help" information in title
attributes. Unfortunately, whether this 
>actually is helpful depends on the browser. IE (win) will show the whole
text (or at least a lot of characters) while 
>Mozilla (and its Netscape derivatives) will show only a fixed-length
(maximized-length) string which may cut off the 
>relevant part of the help text. I've come to the conclusion that a title
attribute may be useful for some purposes, but 
>not really for "help" information. 

I think it's not realy a problem if you respect WAI recommendation that say
that links have to be short.
On BrailleNet short = max 80 caracters. So no problems with mozilla or
Netscape ;o)

>That depends on what model (DTD) of HTML you're using (or aiming at). With
the "transitional" models in HTML 4.x and 
>XHTML 1.0 the target attribute is indeed allowed and valid. But if you're
aiming for (X)HTML strict (or XHTML 1.1) it 
>isn't: frames of any sort (which includes the target attribute) are not
allowed in any of the strict models.

I aggree with that but i learn to code with html transitional. ;o)

>Some applications do indeed target XHTML strict (including on I'm working
on).
What type ?

>If that is a problem, given your audience, use the transitional model
instead of HTML 4.x strict/XHTML 1.0 strict/XHTML 
>1.1.

>And it's not as simple as it sounds :)


All pages I develop are HTML 4 transitional Valid.

I just have a question what is the difference, for an audience, to code on
strict more than on Transitional ?

yoan


-----Message d'origine-----
De : w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org] De la part
de Marjolein Katsma
Envoyé : mercredi 19 novembre 2003 12:46
À : w3c-wai-ig@w3.org



At 12:11 2003-11-19, yoan SIMONIAN wrote:
>And on my own opinion new windows on HTML "_blank" is HTML valid so 
>can't be forbiden just adapt to make it more accessible

That depends on what model (DTD) of HTML you're using (or aiming at). With
the "transitional" models in HTML 4.x and XHTML 1.0 the target attribute is
indeed allowed and valid. But if you're aiming for (X)HTML strict (or XHTML
1.1) it isn't: frames of any sort (which includes the target attribute) are
not allowed in any of the strict models.

Some applications do indeed target XHTML strict (including on I'm working
on).

Alternatives/solutions are:
- tell your users whether what _type_ of links they're seeing and whether it
might be useful for *them* to use their UA facilities to open a new window
(maybe even tell them how - but somewhere separate)
- for "help" type information do what's been suggested in this thread
before: allow the user to display the page with, or without, help
information embedded in the page *)
- use 'object' tags instead of 'iframe' tags (embedding or displaying
"external" content may be a requirement; and "external" may mean being on
the same server, just not presented by the same application).

Problem:
This may exclude some older browsers (specifically, using object instead of
iframe).
This may be possible only with server-side scripting (not all developers
have access to that).
If that is a problem, given your audience, use the transitional model
instead of HTML 4.x strict/XHTML 1.0 strict/XHTML 1.1.

And it's not as simple as it sounds :)

*) I've seen some admirable efforts to include "help" information in title
attributes. Unfortunately, whether this actually is helpful depends on the
browser. IE (win) will show the whole text (or at least a lot of characters)
while Mozilla (and its Netscape derivatives) will show only a fixed-length
(maximized-length) string which may cut off the relevant part of the help
text. I've come to the conclusion that a title attribute may be useful for
some purposes, but not really for "help" information.



Cheers,
--
Marjolein Katsma
HomeSite Help - http://hshelp.com/ - Extensions, Tips and Tools The
Bookstore - http://books.hshelp.com/ - Books for webmasters and webrookies
Received on Wednesday, 19 November 2003 07:58:37 GMT

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