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Re: portals

From: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@sidar.org>
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:04:57 +0200
Cc: "FOX, Jake" <FOXJ@NORWICH-UNION.CO.UK>, <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
To: <gdeering@acslink.net.au>
Message-Id: <908F96C3-FA61-11D7-A532-000A958826AA@sidar.org>

Hi Geoff,

Ah yes, this is going beyond "content" to create an "application", and 
an authoring application at that.

And now that you mention it, there are the "Authoring Tool 
Accessibility Guidelines", a W3C recommendation published in early 
2000, with an active working group - see http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU - and 
they talk about many of the issues you raise, as well as some others. 
It is true that doing this right is a bit more complex than just making 
a web page.

If you (or anyone) happen to have time to review those guidelines, 
evaluate a tool against them or provide some techniques, I presume the 
working group would be interested in the feedback (they're a small 
group taking on a large and complex task), and I would be myself.



On Thursday, Oct 9, 2003, at 15:26 Europe/Zurich, Geoff Deering wrote:

> The difficult area for portals or CMSs to address web standards and 
> WAI is the methods used for users to add content.†Taken that the web 
> developers have produced templates that conform to a W3C grammar, and 
> it has no major inaccessibility issues, it is at the stage when users 
> add, modify or edit the content that it becomes very difficult to 
> manage and keep markup consistent with any formal grammar/dtd.
> †
> In most CMS systems this is done via a textarea, which is the place 
> where users insert their content in the document.†Many CMS have 
> something like htmlarea as a toolbar that will allow the user to 
> markup the document.†Mostly it is HTML soup.†Some CMS do this and then 
> have a Tidy plugin to clean up the markup.†There are also other 
> plugins in various CMSs that can find ABBRs and wrap that tag around 
> them and add a title attribute with meaning of the ABBR.†There are 
> many similar plugins to help quality control user content, but it is 
> very difficult to do this and maintain documents with correct and 
> proper structure.
> †
> Anything beyond basic paragraphs with bold and italics and URLs, such 
> as lists and tables are very difficult for users to build without 
> coding HTML.†As far as I know there is no one quite addressing this 
> issue (maybe BitFlux, but I havenít tried it).†I donít know what Plone 
> does to address this issue (Tom)?†Apache/Cocoon/Lenya I think is 
> probably the best framework for delivering content in a dynamic way, 
> but Lenya is not yet ready for prime time, and its not a trivial 
> system, itís an advanced publishing framework.†There are a lot of 
> other products that do a pretty good job, but I donít think there is 
> anything out there that one can say is really mature addressing these 
> concerns?
> †
> Geoff
Charles McCathieNevile                          Fundaciůn Sidar
charles@sidar.org                                http://www.sidar.org
Received on Thursday, 9 October 2003 10:11:28 UTC

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