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Re: Menus, navigation, and simplicity (Perhaps slightly off-topic)

From: Jonathan Chetwynd <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 23:16:52 +0100
Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
To: Kevin A Sesock <sesock@okstate.edu>
Message-Id: <DF06D5B2-B648-11D7-AF2F-0003939B5AD0@btinternet.com>

I'm with you, and have raised the same issue in the past on more than 
one occasion.
please pester more people with it, how about the html / xhtml lists?
@include menu.html is every bit as valid as linking to an image, css, 
or script.
unfortunately there aren't enough of us to get this implemented 

thanks again

@~250 pages

On Monday, July 14, 2003, at 04:04  pm, Kevin A Sesock wrote:

> All:
> This may sound like a stupid question, as well as an off-topic one, 
> but it's a necessary one, and one that I can't find asked too often, 
> so here goes...
> One of the original concepts behind designing in frames, at least the 
> way I understand it, was to simplify web developer's needs in regards 
> to providing menus (or navigation sections), headers, etc. The content 
> was created as individual pages, but the menus, the top-level banners, 
> etc. etc. etc., was supposed to be in seperate frames to simplify 
> sites that were being constantly changed. Add a new section to your 
> site? Change one page (the one that includes your menus), and validate 
> your links. Poof, you're done.
> Unfortunately, frames were in many cases more trouble than they are 
> worth. They're inaccessible, they often times make a site look 
> horrible in different size browsers, they're hard to control properly, 
> bookmarking, page linking, and on down the line.
> The problem, however, still exists for those people without any type 
> of content management solution. It's tedious and ineffective to update 
> the <div class="menu"> section of every top-level page of their site. 
> If you don't have PHP, a content management solution, or something, 
> anything, you're in trouble.
> For those of us with little to no control over the server itself, and 
> can basically only put up .html pages that are just straight html (no 
> server-side anything), we are in trouble. I've been unable to find a 
> way to have the User Agent to "pull in" or import an additional html 
> file, or content, or whatever, in much the same way as the User Agent 
> requests an external css file with the appropriate code placed neatly 
> in the headers.
> Now, for those of you who have an easy, fast, simple solution for 
> those of us who are having to do things in the old-fashioned way, I 
> apologize for spamming the list, especially with something that seems 
> relatively off-topic. Feel free to chastise me off-list, or better 
> yet, flame e-mails should be immediately directed to /dev/null. 
> Ultimately, if I can't find a good way to do this, I'll go back to 
> frames, as it makes my life so much easier (althought I hesitate to do 
> this). The underlying problem is that I'm not a web developer by 
> trade, as much as I am an Assistive Technologist. Therefore, I am 
> limited in the time I can spend on our website (which is in desperate 
> need of rebuilding).
> Thank you in advance for your help, and I hope I didn't disturb all of 
> your Monday's too badly. :)
> Kevin A. Sesock, A+, NET+, CNA, MCSA
> Deskside Computer Support Specialist
> Student Disability Services
> SLA Program
> Information Technology Division
> Oklahoma State University
> "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in 
> practice there is." --Unknown
Received on Monday, 14 July 2003 18:13:10 UTC

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