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RE: Rockville, MD- Seeking low vision users for testing federal website

From: John Foliot - bytown internet <foliot@bytowninternet.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 19:58:11 -0500
To: <michaeka@WellsFargo.COM>, <RRust@COVANSYS.com>, <accessys@smart.net>
Cc: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <GKEFJJEKDDIMBHJOGLENIEOJCPAA.foliot@bytowninternet.com>

You then are the exception to the rule.

I deal with visually oriented civil servants who cannot fathom why it is not
enough to take their powerpoint presentations and export them as HTML, or
take their MS Word Docs and "print" them to PDF and publish them on the web
like some modern age guttenberg printing press.  I make the distinction to
impress upon them that it's not simply "click, click, click" and voila, web
page.  Remember, these are the same people who "highlite" text in Frontpage
and make it Bold and Font Size 6 instead of using the Heading Element.

Thus, I use the technically correct term of Post (the companion of Get) when
uploading completed web content to the web server.  It's a mind set thing.

Same with design.  I appreciate that esthetics and usable design is an
integeral part of web development (not to mention one of the things that
gets the signed contract in the private industry world); I also spent half
an hour with a designer last week who argued with me over scalable font
sizes because "it didn't look nice".  Give me a break!  Photoshop should be
one of the tools used in web site development, not the only tool.  I once
consulted with a group of developers who told me that "the designer gave
them a series of PSD files and told them to turn them into web pages".
Puleeez...  Doesn't that sound like putting the cart before the horse?

So Blossom, pardon me if my position seems strident (there *are* more
radical voices on this forum), but we gotta start drilling into their heads
that web pages are not a cross between TV and Newspapers or magazines...
it's a whole lot more (and sometimes needs to be a little bit less) than


> -----Original Message-----
> From: michaeka@WellsFargo.COM [mailto:michaeka@WellsFargo.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 1:51 PM
> To: foliot@bytowninternet.com; RRust@COVANSYS.com; accessys@smart.net
> Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: RE: Rockville, MD- Seeking low vision users for testing federal
> website
> According to www.m-w.com, the meaning of "post" includes:
> a. to publish, announce, or advertise by or as if by use of a placard
> b. to enter on a public listing
> and "publish" includes:
> a. to make generally known
> b. to disseminate to the public
> I "post" to a  mailing list like WAI-IG. I "publish" Web sites, as my
> purpose in doing so is to communicate to as wide an audience as possible,
> not solely to a specific list.
> In my Web site work I both "design" (content, look-and-feel) and "develop"
> (code and other techie issues). Both correctly done code and well-designed
> content and visual layout support accessibility.
> While it's important that Web pages read correctly with screen readers,
> conscientious layout and use of images may help people with certain
> cognitive disabilities better access the Web, as well as provide a more
> pleasing and usable Web experience for sighted users in general.
> I, for one,
> find heavily text-based sites with poor/no use of images and white space
> hard to access.
> Blossom Michaeloff
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Foliot - bytown internet [mailto:foliot@bytowninternet.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 5:41 AM
> To: RUST Randal; 'Access Systems'
> Cc: WAI-IG
> Subject: RE: Rockville, MD- Seeking low vision users for testing federal
> website
> Hear, hear!
> Another issue is dealing with content creators who are accustomed
> to writing
> material and seek to "publish" there tomes on the internet.  We also have
> "designers" who approach web development strictly from an esthetic
> perspective, with little thought to underlying functionality.
> Everybody, repeat after me: "We don't *publish* web sites, we
> POST them.  We
> don't *design* web sites, we DEVELOP them."  (I'm thinking of getting a
> t-shirt printed.)
> JF
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]On
> > Behalf Of RUST Randal
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 8:31 AM
> > To: 'Access Systems'
> > Cc: WAI-IG
> > Subject: RE: Rockville, MD- Seeking low vision users for testing federal
> > w ebsite
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob said:
> >
> > > of course the expectations are way up there, as someone who
> > > has been on what passes for the internet for over 20 years I
> > > am seriously dismayed by the degradation of accessibility
> > > over the years, the equipment and software is getting better
> > > but total access is getting worse...would you not be dismayed?
> >
> > As I get more and more involved in Web development, I cannot
> > ignore that the
> > situation is only going to grow worse.  This is in large part due to
> > programmers who are moving from software development to Web development.
> > They rely too much on WYSIWYG tools, such as JDeveloper, Struts
> and Visual
> > Basic.  Because they have, in the past, had little or no
> constraint in how
> > they've had to create code, except for the platform, they have no
> > desire to
> > put the effort into properly writing markup.  As long as the
> pages display
> > and work in Internet Explorer then they think that their job is
> done. This
> > is a huge problem that I'm having to deal with on a daily basis.
> >
> > Randal
> >
> >
Received on Wednesday, 18 December 2002 19:58:26 UTC

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