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RE: Invisible "Skip navigation" link

From: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:01:21 -0400 (EDT)
To: RUST Randal <RRust@COVANSYS.com>
cc: "'WAI IG'" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0207240953410.1808-100000@tux.w3.org>

More efficient still, of course, would be if your browser provided you with
an automatically generated index of access keys and what they activated - if
necessary changing the keys suggested by the author to something available to
the user.

Then you could have

<input type="submit" accesskey="a" id="add" name="add" title="Add Employee"
value="Add Employee" />

and know that your users would be able to work out how to get to it quickly
(given that you have given it an accesskey to make sure there is a a direct
access method).

You might like to look over the User Agent Accessibility Guidelines -
http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG - or Common User Agent Problems -
http://www.w3.org/TR/CUAP - for other things you should be asking your
browser maker to fix which would make the lives of both authors and readers



On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, RUST Randal wrote:

>Based on the results of this discussion, should I be marking all my INPUTS
>as such:
><input type="submit" accesskey="a" id="add" name="add" title="Add Employee.
>Access Key = a. " value="Add Employee" />
>This is a lot more efficient that putting together a messy "help" document.
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Charles McCathieNevile [mailto:charles@w3.org]
>>Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 8:14 AM
>>To: Steve Vosloo
>>Cc: 'WAI IG'
>>Subject: RE: Invisible "Skip navigation" link
>>Well, one approach is to use XHTML, where it is OK to have
>>whitespace that is expected to be significant.
>>Going against things specified as "should" should not  be done
>>lightly. You
>>should ensure that if you do so, you are not breaking
>>anything. That seems to
>>be the case here...
>>On Wed, 24 Jul 2002, Steve Vosloo wrote:
>>>It seems there are instances where guidelines clash with best
>>>practices/workarounds, like the example here. You're damned if you do
>>>and damned if you don't! This whole field is still working itself out
>>>and there are bound to be these situations.
>>>I reckon you simply have to choose a solution and make it consistent
>>>across your site. Given the facts I have so far, I'm happy to put
>>>trailing spaces on everything.
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org] On
>>>Behalf Of Jukka Korpela
>>>Sent: 24 July 2002 09:19 AM
>>>To: 'WAI IG'
>>>Subject: RE: Invisible "Skip navigation" link
>>>Steve Vosloo wrote:
>>>> To cover all bases it seems a good idea to always put a
>>space after a
>>>> text description, and usually after some sort of punctuation:
>>>> <a href="#content" title="Skip Navigation. Access key = 2. "> <img
>>>> src="hello.gif" alt="Hello world. "> <frame src="banner.html"
>>>> title="Frame banner. ">
>>>In practice, I tend to agree, at least in situations where alt texts
>>>would otherwise "run together".
>>>But we have a problem here. The HTML 4 specification says that user
>>>agents may ignore leading and trailing spaces in attributes
>>(e.g., treat
>>>alt="foo " as equivalent to alt="foo") for "CDATA attributes" (such as
>>>title, alt, and many others). This is specified in section 6.2 "SGML
>>>basic types" (so you may easily miss it when using the
>>specification as
>>>a reference): http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/types.html#h-6.2
>>>And it even says in this context: "Authors should not declare
>>>values with leading or trailing white space." (Someone might interpret
>>>this "only" as a strong way of saying that authors should not
>>_rely_ on
>>>such space being preserved.)
>>>XHTML is a different beast:
>>>"Whitespace in attribute values is processed according to [XML]."
>>>  http://www.w3.org/TR/html/#uaconf
>>>And this means strict (and fairly complicated) normalization rules:
>>>  http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml#AVNormalize
>>>But those rules do not make stripping leading and trailing spaces
>>>mandatory for CDATA attributes - though they _do_ require
>>such stripping
>>>for other attributes! (And they require compression of
>>multiple spaces,
>>>so that alt="foo  " is normalized to alt="foo ".)
>>>It's difficult to say whether XHTML is intended to _allow_
>>stripping of
>>>leading and trailing spaces in CDATA attributes (as HTML 4 does).
>>>Note that if such stripping is allowed, alt=" " can be treated as
>>>identical to alt="", which would not be nice at all if e.g.
>>the image is
>>>a separator between adjacent words.
>>Charles McCathieNevile    http://www.w3.org/People/Charles
>>phone: +61 409 134 136
>>W3C Web Accessibility Initiative     http://www.w3.org/WAI
>>fax: +33 4 92 38 78 22
>>Location: 21 Mitchell street FOOTSCRAY Vic 3011, Australia
>>(or W3C INRIA, Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia
>>Antipolis Cedex, France)

Charles McCathieNevile    http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  phone: +61 409 134 136
W3C Web Accessibility Initiative     http://www.w3.org/WAI  fax: +33 4 92 38 78 22
Location: 21 Mitchell street FOOTSCRAY Vic 3011, Australia
(or W3C INRIA, Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex, France)
Received on Wednesday, 24 July 2002 10:01:40 UTC

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