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RE: WA - background-image in CSS

From: Access Systems <accessys@smart.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:05:19 -0500 (EST)
To: RUST Randal <RRust@COVANSYS.com>
cc: "'Harry Woodrow'" <harrry@email.com>, w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0201181001000.5593-100000@smarty.smart.net>
On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, RUST Randal wrote:

let me relate a true story:

  some years ago I was at a speech and it was being sign language
interperted, at one point the speaker had a coughing attack and turned
away from the podium to clear his throat and blow his nose before
returning to the podium to resume his talk.   The interperter sat still
during this break.
  after the event a deaf person gave the interperter "what for" for not
interperting "everything" ?!

did the coughing impart anything important??
was it planned, doubt it
was it serious enough that the interperter should have been chastised?

Bob
I need to get back to work now, will pick this discussion up a little
later when I get a break..


> i see that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue.  
> 
> only one thing is certain:  users have rights, but so do authors.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harry Woodrow [mailto:harrry@email.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:44 AM
> To: RUST Randal; 'Access Systems'
> Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: RE: WA - background-image in CSS
> 
> 
> No it need not look exactly the same in every browser...that is how a print
> designer designs. It should have the same content available in every
> browser.  If any adjustments are to be made they are to be done by the user.
> Whether that defence would wash may depend on your jurisdiction but the fact
> would remain that if you serve pages in this way you are engaged in
> discrimination.
> Harry Woodrow
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]On
> Behalf Of RUST Randal
> Sent: Friday, 18 January 2002 10:37 PM
> To: 'Access Systems'
> Cc: 'Harry Woodrow'; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: RE: WA - background-image in CSS
> 
> 
> by that definition, then my web page should LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME in every
> browser.  which is an impossibility.
> 
> the idea that once i post the page it is no longer mine to control is silly.
> it's on my server, i can do whatever i want with it.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Access Systems [mailto:accessys@smart.net]
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:35 AM
> To: RUST Randal
> Cc: 'Harry Woodrow'; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: RE: WA - background-image in CSS
> 
> 
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, RUST Randal wrote:
> 
> ***************************************************
> discriminate - "to make a difference in treatment"
>   Webster's collegiate dictionary, 5th edition
> ***************************************************
> 
> > no.  if i design a page on my website to be accessible by all browsers and
> > all AT, and i decide that a background image is not relative content, so i
> > put it in as a CSS background, that is my opinion, and that is my right as
> > the author of the page.
> 
> and that IS discrimination, since "YOU" determine what an individual
> deserves based on their disability.
> 
> > as a journalist, i find the point of view that the user has control over
> > what i determine is essential is simply ludicrous.
> 
> once it is place on the page it is no longer yours to control. and if it
> is on the page for one it needs to be on everyones page.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Harry Woodrow [mailto:harrry@email.com]
> > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:20 AM
> > To: RUST Randal; 'Access Systems'; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> > Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> > Subject: RE: WA - background-image in CSS
> >
> >
> > That should be exactly what he should be saying.
> > If you think you have the right to discriminate between what users of your
> > page receive based on their disability I suggest you read the definition
> of
> > discrimination and ask any of the disability representative organizations.
> > You can think what you want but when you make that public there are
> > responsibilities both morally and legally that you do so in a non
> > discriminatory manner.
> >
> > Harry Woodrow
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]On
> > Behalf Of RUST Randal
> > Sent: Friday, 18 January 2002 10:10 PM
> > To: 'Access Systems'; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> > Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> > Subject: RE: WA - background-image in CSS
> >
> >
> > Think about what you are saying here.  You are saying that the USER should
> > be able to determine what is important on the PAGE THAT I HAVE AUTHORED!?
> > If this is your view of the web, then what is the point of anyone even
> > posting a web page?
> >
> > The author of the page is the one who determines what is essential.  This
> is
> > the basis of such things as "blogging" and personal journals.
> >
> > What if you wrote a page, and eliminated a paragraph before you post it.
> > Are you saying that the user that the author should leave it, and let the
> > user decide if it should stay or not?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Access Systems [mailto:accessys@smart.net]
> > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 8:56 AM
> > To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> > Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> > Subject: Re: WA - background-image in CSS
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, RUST Randal wrote:
> >
> > my opinion only ! (well maybe not just me but I do not speak for others)
> >
> > > blind user gets the same ESSENTIAL CONTENT as the user who can see the
> > page.
> >
> > users with disabilities or other reasons for using alternative screen
> > display
> >   DESERVE AND ARE ENTITLED TO ALL THE CONTENT, who are "you" to determine
> > what is "essential" content to me
> >
> > THIS IS ONE of the major complaints of almost all people with disabilities
> > in all areas of access.  NO ONE!, period, has the right to determine my
> > needs and priorities.
> >
> > Bob
> > *you and me as used is generic and not intended to mean any one individual
> > ** really one of my major peeves!
> > *** shouting is intentional and needed
> >
> >    ASCII Ribbon Campaign                        accessBob
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
> 
>    ASCII Ribbon Campaign                        accessBob
> 
>     NO HTML/PDF/RTF in e-mail                   accessys@smartnospam.net
> 
>     NO MSWord docs in e-mail                    Access Systems, engineers
> 
>     NO attachments in e-mail,  *LINUX powered*   access is a civil right
> *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
> *#
> THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be
> privileged.  They are intended ONLY for the individual or entity named
> above. If you are not the intended recipient, Please notify the sender as
> soon as possible. Please DO NOT READ, COPY, USE, or DISCLOSE this
> communication to others and DELETE it from your computer systems.  Thanks
> 

   ASCII Ribbon Campaign                        accessBob                       
    NO HTML/PDF/RTF in e-mail                   accessys@smartnospam.net       
    NO MSWord docs in e-mail                    Access Systems, engineers       
    NO attachments in e-mail,  *LINUX powered*   access is a civil right 
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be
privileged.  They are intended ONLY for the individual or entity named
above. If you are not the intended recipient, Please notify the sender as
soon as possible. Please DO NOT READ, COPY, USE, or DISCLOSE this
communication to others and DELETE it from your computer systems.  Thanks
Received on Friday, 18 January 2002 10:02:15 GMT

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