RE: WA - background-image in CSS

i see that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue.  

only one thing is certain:  users have rights, but so do authors.

-----Original Message-----
From: Harry Woodrow [mailto:harrry@email.com]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:44 AM
To: RUST Randal; 'Access Systems'
Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: WA - background-image in CSS


No it need not look exactly the same in every browser...that is how a print
designer designs. It should have the same content available in every
browser.  If any adjustments are to be made they are to be done by the user.
Whether that defence would wash may depend on your jurisdiction but the fact
would remain that if you serve pages in this way you are engaged in
discrimination.
Harry Woodrow


-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]On
Behalf Of RUST Randal
Sent: Friday, 18 January 2002 10:37 PM
To: 'Access Systems'
Cc: 'Harry Woodrow'; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: WA - background-image in CSS


by that definition, then my web page should LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME in every
browser.  which is an impossibility.

the idea that once i post the page it is no longer mine to control is silly.
it's on my server, i can do whatever i want with it.


-----Original Message-----
From: Access Systems [mailto:accessys@smart.net]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:35 AM
To: RUST Randal
Cc: 'Harry Woodrow'; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: WA - background-image in CSS


On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, RUST Randal wrote:

***************************************************
discriminate - "to make a difference in treatment"
  Webster's collegiate dictionary, 5th edition
***************************************************

> no.  if i design a page on my website to be accessible by all browsers and
> all AT, and i decide that a background image is not relative content, so i
> put it in as a CSS background, that is my opinion, and that is my right as
> the author of the page.

and that IS discrimination, since "YOU" determine what an individual
deserves based on their disability.

> as a journalist, i find the point of view that the user has control over
> what i determine is essential is simply ludicrous.

once it is place on the page it is no longer yours to control. and if it
is on the page for one it needs to be on everyones page.

Bob


>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harry Woodrow [mailto:harrry@email.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 9:20 AM
> To: RUST Randal; 'Access Systems'; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: RE: WA - background-image in CSS
>
>
> That should be exactly what he should be saying.
> If you think you have the right to discriminate between what users of your
> page receive based on their disability I suggest you read the definition
of
> discrimination and ask any of the disability representative organizations.
> You can think what you want but when you make that public there are
> responsibilities both morally and legally that you do so in a non
> discriminatory manner.
>
> Harry Woodrow
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]On
> Behalf Of RUST Randal
> Sent: Friday, 18 January 2002 10:10 PM
> To: 'Access Systems'; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: RE: WA - background-image in CSS
>
>
> Think about what you are saying here.  You are saying that the USER should
> be able to determine what is important on the PAGE THAT I HAVE AUTHORED!?
> If this is your view of the web, then what is the point of anyone even
> posting a web page?
>
> The author of the page is the one who determines what is essential.  This
is
> the basis of such things as "blogging" and personal journals.
>
> What if you wrote a page, and eliminated a paragraph before you post it.
> Are you saying that the user that the author should leave it, and let the
> user decide if it should stay or not?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Access Systems [mailto:accessys@smart.net]
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 8:56 AM
> To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: Re: WA - background-image in CSS
>
>
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, RUST Randal wrote:
>
> my opinion only ! (well maybe not just me but I do not speak for others)
>
> > blind user gets the same ESSENTIAL CONTENT as the user who can see the
> page.
>
> users with disabilities or other reasons for using alternative screen
> display
>   DESERVE AND ARE ENTITLED TO ALL THE CONTENT, who are "you" to determine
> what is "essential" content to me
>
> THIS IS ONE of the major complaints of almost all people with disabilities
> in all areas of access.  NO ONE!, period, has the right to determine my
> needs and priorities.
>
> Bob
> *you and me as used is generic and not intended to mean any one individual
> ** really one of my major peeves!
> *** shouting is intentional and needed
>
>    ASCII Ribbon Campaign                        accessBob
>
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   ASCII Ribbon Campaign                        accessBob

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    NO MSWord docs in e-mail                    Access Systems, engineers

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THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be
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Received on Friday, 18 January 2002 09:47:32 UTC