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Re: compliance and layout tables revisited

From: David Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 06:57:17 -0400
To: David Woolley <david@djwhome.demon.co.uk>, w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Message-id: <003401c1f67f$1ef92b10$91e03244@DAVIDPOEHLMAN>
thanks, this is the most instructive message I have seen on this thread.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Woolley" <david@djwhome.demon.co.uk>
To: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 2:48 AM
Subject: Re: compliance and layout tables revisited


> It seems as if checkpoint 5.3 is saying you can use layout tables. For
=
> instance, if I use layout tables for a form where I have 2 columns
(the =

I think the use of tables here is a concession to the fact that a lot
of browsers still have poor CSS support, rather than something desirable
in the long term.

> <input TYPE=3D"Image" SRC=3D"images/buttons/update.gif" border=3D"0" =

This, of course, is a hack, as this sort of input element was designed
for image maps not image buttons.  Unfortunately the right way of doing
this doesn't degrade gracefully (button elements), and is more or less
totally unknown to designers.  As such, it is a hack that is
unavoidable,
if you must custom design buttons.

> VALUE=3D"Update Basket" ALT=3D"if you changed a quantity, Update =
> Basket">

ALT here is a hack.  ALT is not intended for the generation of tool
tips.
If the value doesn't get used automatically, the appropriate alt text
here is a repeat of the value.

> border=3D"0" doesn't validate for the html 4.01 transitional doctype =
> (the most lenient) on the input tag yet if I take it out, a border
shows =
> up around the image in some browsers.

I'm not sure that I've noticed this.  However, given that this is
effectively
a link, why do you want to hide the fact and therefore force people to
guess what is decoration and what active?  Are you sure that the
browsers
that show the border don't also support CSS to turn it off.  (You can
actually use explicit CSS to partially emulate a button element type
presentation.)

> input tag make my site (or that particular part of the page) =
> inaccessible? No, it doesn't. I'd love to have all the little icons on
=

It is the thin end of the wedge.  Once you accept one HTML language
violation,
you have set a precedent for accepting others.  You could always provide
and publish your own DTD, or better, convince the authors of the browser
that honours this attribute to publish a DTD that describes the language
that their browser accepts.

> Content-Type: text/html;

Deleted 5K of invalid HTML.
Received on Wednesday, 8 May 2002 06:57:50 GMT

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