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RE: Fresh start? Re: Minimal Browser Capabilities

From: Access Systems <accessys@smart.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:20:52 -0500 (EST)
To: Harry Woodorw <harrry@email.com>
cc: Vadim Plessky <lucy-ples@mtu-net.ru>, Jim Ley <jim@jibbering.com>, w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0112280901140.20780-100000@smarty.smart.net>
On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Harry Woodorw wrote:

> I take one free browser on each platform meaning that at least one browser
> is available free that supports that platform that conforms to WAI
> standards.  I do not wholy agree with this as I am not quite sure whether it
> really has to be free or reasonably available in comparrison with the cost
> of the hardware and network costs.

well since we are also talking about many places in the world where they
are using discarded and free hand me down computers, it would mean
"FREE" as in not one plug nickle cost to the end user.

> I would consider that if at least one readilly available for each major
> platform ( I do not include people trying to surf the internet on an amstrad

define "Major"  micro$haft defines it as WinXP and nothing else.

> cpm machine etc) which supports access keys,expresses all output in a form
> suitible for basic screen readers and supports published grammars and has
> been available for at least say one year in the case of free browsers and
> works with screen readers say 4 years old we may have a situation that the
> platform is accessible.

you must be loaded in money, have you priced a some screen readers
lately??

> I define platform as "Intel pentium 1 + IBM compattible comuter, OR  Mac
> hardware newer than say 4 years.  OR Net TV based hardware.

far too new and "advanced" to be considered a baseline for a "WORLD" wide
web.   visually impaired folks in the Sudan, or wherever also need access

> I would not count say the AOL browser as being a platform but a browser that

unfortunately AOL is the largest internet service (sort of) provider

> may or may not count towards being a readily available browser depending on
> its support of features mentioned above.

it must be included

> I do not count accessible such browsers such as Lynx which if it cannot
> connect to it's home page on startup stops working. or count Opera as free

????? huh???  I use Lynx in all sorts of places and it is never even
connected unless I tell it to, and have used it on dial up lap top
connections.

> when it requires either payment or the download of additional advertising
> messages.

some (many) people will accept the advertising to get access, as long as
it renders properly or does not crash the screen reader (yahoo has pulled
off accessible advertising, darn it)

> The browser must also self install with no special configuration needed by
> the user.

not sure what you mean here, self install as in "it's loaded in a OS
bundle" or if it is in an RPM and you execute it, or it has to be unzipped
and then manually installed

> THe user should not have to swap between browsers in order to navigat
> diferent types of sites.

true

I don't think a lot of people on these committees realize what many folks
with disabilities are actually operating with, even in this
country.  we're talking folks who may live on the less than $500 a month
from SSDI and paying the rent, phone and food bills consume most of it.

and in other countries as little as $5 a month.  

BUT even on these budgets some internet access is still possible, but it
sure isn't a pentium anything.  I know folks who are trying to get enough
memory to install windows 3.1 but are on the internet and it is their only
source of outside information,  we cannot disenfrancise these folks and
then call it "access"

The whole world cannot upgrade twice a year!

  one of the advantages of Lynx is that it will run on dang near anything!

I recently logged on with lynx from an old Victor 9000, with an 8086, dial
up modem, and DOS 3.1 and it worked, the internet software was COMit, and
it was a UNIX link to the web.    the result was nothing fancy but it did
get information from sites that are considered accessible.  slow, yup it
was a 1200 baud modem, you sure don't want graffics at 1200 baud!!!

 now I am not saying this should be a minimum standard but I am saying
that there is a lot to be said for the versatility of lynx!

Bob



 > 
> Harry Woodrow
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]On
> Behalf Of Vadim Plessky
> Sent: Friday, 28 December 2001 9:55 PM
> To: Jim Ley; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Fresh start? Re: Minimal Browser Capabilities
> 
> 
> On Friday 28 December 2001 01:29, Jim Ley wrote:
> |    "Charles McCathieNevile"
> |   > available in one free browser for each platform? Or does it need to be
> |   > avalable in IE (which is not a multi-platform browser - it is
> available
> |   on two platforms and the versions are effectively different pieces of
> |   software)?
> |
> |   > Or does it need to be available for at least two years?
> |
> |   I believe it's available on 4 platforms (Win32, Mac,Solaris, and
> | PocketPC) but it's also 4 seperate browsers with an entire different
> | codebase (unlike NN, or Mozilla) which share only a name.
> 
> IE for PocketPC / Windows CE is, in fact, MS IE 4.0.
> There were rumors that MS will update it [Pocket IE] to MS IE 5.0, but AFAIK
> this hsan't happened yet.
> Anyway, as Win CE PDA's do not have Ethernet or Radio-Ethernet connectivity
> built-in, I doubt they can be counted as a Platform.
> 
> And I can add to Jim's list another 1.5 platforms.
> 1) WebTV - which is also based on MS technologies
> 2) AOL browser. AOL (still) uses MS IE codebase (some kind of OEM version of
> MS IE), but some web marketers treat it as a separate browser.
> So my opinion is that AOL browser should account for 0.5 of "platform" :-)
> 
> |
> |   Jim.
> 
> --
> 
> Vadim Plessky
> http://kde2.newmail.ru  (English)
> 33 Window Decorations and 6 Widget Styles for KDE
> http://kde2.newmail.ru/kde_themes.html
> KDE mini-Themes
> http://kde2.newmail.ru/themes/
> 

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Received on Friday, 28 December 2001 08:59:54 GMT

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