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RE: SVG - A thought

From: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 07:54:50 -0500 (EST)
To: "SHARPE, Ian" <Ian.SHARPE@cambridge.sema.slb.com>
cc: "WAI (E-mail)" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0112260752470.5266-100000@tux.w3.org>
Hi Ian,

an answer that is very ahort, and one that is very long:

short: Yes, SVG should let you get the content out of a presentation, and
enable the same things as flash. Of course it depends how it is used, so it
is important that authors and tools follow approriate accessibility

long: There is a W3C Note that I co-wrote called "Accessibility Features of
SVG" that describes some of this and how to do it in detail at


Charles McCN

On Thu, 20 Dec 2001, SHARPE, Ian wrote:

  Apologies if I've not picked up something but it sounds like XML/XSLT + SVG
  (mixing in one "page"?) combination could be where browsers are heading? I
  was originally thinking that SVG could be an opportunity for the visually
  impared to possibly get some useful information from a graphical
  presentation? I know it's been said that it is not a Adobe replacement for
  Flash but if I use flash as an example then we are talking about something
  which is completely inaccessible correct? It obviously doesn't make sense to
  provide an actual alternative but if we could even get the information out
  then that would be an improvement? I recently came across 3 fantastic offers
  on books but they were in Flash and so completely useless to me. Is it
  possible or likely to be possible to say get the text from such a book if it
  were in SVG format? I'm concerned that we might be missing an opportunity to
  possibly define specific standards (as opposed to the general guildelines
  given in the SVG specification on Accessibility) before SVG becomes more
  commonly used?

  I'm getting the feeling that my fundatmental lack of understanding of
  exactly what SVG is and how it works may be letting me down so apologies if
  the above is simply rubbish!! But my concern is genuine.


  -----Original Message-----
  From: Vadim Plessky [mailto:lucy-ples@mtu-net.ru]
  Sent: 20 December 2001 15:24
  To: David Woolley; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
  Subject: Re: SVG - A thought

  On Thursday 20 December 2001 07:34, David Woolley wrote:
  |   > BTW: What is also quite visible from your list is absence of
  |   > What are in fact Microsoft plans concerning SVG?
  |   > So far, MS bundles Macromedia Flash plugin with every copy of MS IE,
  |   > and this
  |   I note that they also don't bundle Acrobat and that Adobe is, to me,
  |   the apparent prime mover for SVG.  I draw some conclusiions from that.

  Necessity to support PDF (Acrobat) is still questionable to me.
  PDF is not W3C standard/recommendation, and is based on PostScript which is
  good but aged technology.
  I think XML+CSS, plus SVG for vector-based pictures suites needs of modern
  desktop much better than PDF.

  Besides, missing PDF/PS support in Windows is not critical at all - as you
  can install GhostScript and it will do all this stuff for you.
  To prevent (possible) questions about Linux - GhostScript comes as standard
  with all major Linux distributions, and KDE/QT uses it for printing and
  "printing to PDF" (PDF generation)

  My major concern with Microsoft is SVG support. MS supports XML and
  (partially) CSS2, and there are even some CSS3 properties implemented.
  XHTML support is not listed among "available features" of MS IE, but so far
  it works ok.
  If MS is kind enough and can add SVG to MS IE - it would be great for

  |   > Without wide availability of SVG plugins (or other form of SVG
  |   > support), this wonderful specification/standard will fail (or go to
  |   > niche markets)
  |   This is why I tend to qualify reservations about SVG by "if it becomes
  |   widely adopted".   I would go further than plugins and say that unless
  |   it is included directly in IE, or, at the very least, a reccommended
  |   update in Windows Update, it will not achieve general market

  That's what I was keeping in mind speaking about Microsoft.
  I wrote "plugin" but exact packaging of "SVG-enabler" application is not so
  Adobe's plugin for MS IE/Windows is an ActiveX control, if I remeber
  correctly. But it works also with Netscape6 if you copy 3 DLL's manually to
  Netscape's Plugins directory.
  Was my second mail (clarification to first one) is again not clear enough?..
  Than I probably should switch to Russian ;-)

Charles McCathieNevile    http://www.w3.org/People/Charles  phone: +61 409 134 136
W3C Web Accessibility Initiative     http://www.w3.org/WAI    fax: +1 617 258 5999
Location: 21 Mitchell street FOOTSCRAY Vic 3011, Australia
(or W3C INRIA, Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex, France)
Received on Wednesday, 26 December 2001 07:55:02 UTC

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