RE: Fw: Disturbing trend in tables

Ok, then we agree to disagree on this one.  We may be coming at this from
different angles, I represent the implementation side.  I have to pay for
the site and need to make sure it is right the first time.  It is easier to
give developers rules and checklist on how to develop.  Subjective is more
difficult to teach and to implement.  Developers and managers have no idea
on the issues you describe.     Not everyone is a sin tune as we are.
Therefore it is my belief to keep it simple, get buy-in and then we work on
increasing more awareness.

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]  On
Behalf Of Anne Pemberton
Sent:	Thursday, January 18, 2001 6:48 PM
To:	Robert Neff; Kynn Bartlett; Bailey, Bruce
Cc:	w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject:	RE: Fw: Disturbing trend in tables

No, Robert,
     We don't need "quantitative metrics" so much as we need to separate
the genuine needs of disabled persons from the "web development
philosophies" ... Some of the needs of humans are subjective ... a human
has to decide if a given graphic is "decorative" or "illustrative" ... or
if a given text is "comprehensible" or "obtuse" ... or if an alt tag is
sufficient or if a long description is called for.

	Robert, from my experience in education and especially special education,
I am very cautious about the value of "quantitative metrics" as they tend
to "pigeonhole" people, and leave needs unmet that are right there in front
of your nose! "Quantitative metrics" may reduce humans to less than they
are, whereas subjective measure are more likely to enhance what humans can
be ... (If I am too eloquent in educational philosophy, my apologies -
standardized testing has been the cause of much "misclassification" of
children into and out of special ed.)

					Anne





At 06:30 PM 1/18/01 -0600, Robert Neff wrote:
>This is why we need as many quantitative metrics in the guidelines as
>possible.  Subjective causes many problems.
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: 	w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]  On
>Behalf Of Anne Pemberton
>Sent:	Thursday, January 18, 2001 5:04 PM
>To:	Kynn Bartlett; Bailey, Bruce
>Cc:	w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>Subject:	RE: Fw: Disturbing trend in tables
>
>Kynn,
>
>	Thank you once again for making my point more succinctly than I could ...
>Which leads to the next need ... I need to have succinct and understandable
>instruction on how to add whatever is needed to make pages more accessible
>... Furthermore, to sell the idea county-wide instead of among colleagues
>in the building, I need to be able to say ... if any of your students have
>a blind relative, you need to do 1,2,3 to your page so they can see what's
>going on with the student, if any of your students have a relative who has
>to use .... whatever, you need to do whatever .... then have a summarizing
>list that lists everything that needs to be done to make it work for anyone
>(for teachers who decide it's too much effort to find out all needs among
>relatives of their students <grin> ... ) That, I would hope, I could cull
>from the Guidelines what applies to Front Page, spoon-feed it to the
>newbies. Perhaps Version 2.0 ... Perhaps ...
>
>					Anne
>
>At 11:54 AM 1/18/01 -0800, Kynn Bartlett wrote:
>>I think Anne's use of Front Page -- with appropriate instructions
>>on how to add necessary information to make pages more accessible
>>-- is acceptable, given the fact that there are few _good_ options
>>which meet all of her criteria for a product.  There simply are no
>>good software packages aimed at non-designers creating web pages.
>>
>>--Kynn, who guesses this makes me "uninformed"
>>
>>--
>>Kynn Bartlett  <kynn@idyllmtn.com>                http://kynn.com/
>>Technical Developer Relations, Reef           http://www.reef.com/
>>Chief Technologist, Idyll Mountain Internet   http://idyllmtn.com/
>>Contributor, Special Ed. Using XHTML     http://kynn.com/+seuxhtml
>>Unofficial Section 508 Checklist       http://kynn.com/+section508
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Received on Thursday, 18 January 2001 19:58:36 UTC