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RE: Fw: Disturbing trend in tables

From: Ben Canning <bencan@microsoft.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:58:36 -0800
Message-ID: <76EE387EEA6B5F4CA1CFD5A4BA5229F20D2885@RED-MSG-13.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
To: "'Tina Marie Holmboe'" <tina@elfi.elfi.org>, "'jim@jimthatcher.com'" <jim@jimthatcher.com>, "'David Woolley'" <david@djwhome.demon.co.uk>, "'w3c-wai-ig@w3.org'" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Excellent! This is exactly what I wanted to see. 

The blockquote example, like a number of others I can think of, is legacy
from the days before CSS. Back in NS3 and IE3, if you did your indenting via
CSS, the indents wouldn't appear. <blockquote> was a better answer for
supporting the older browsers (actually they were the newer browsers at the
time, but whatever). Note that you _can_ do the right thing. Go into
Paragraph properties and set the indent there and we'll use CSS. Kinda lame
that the indent button doesn't do the same, I agree.

Not sure I understand the complaint about &nbsp;'s. If a paragraph has no
content, the browser doesn't draw it. So if the user hits enter 3 times, we
need to at least put in &nbsp; or the paragraph will just disappear at
browse time. You could make the argument that an author shouldn't use empty
<p>'s as spacer's, but that's not something that FP can enforce. Do empty
paragraphs cause problems for screen readers?

Keep it coming, this is very interesting...

-----Original Message-----
From: Tina Marie Holmboe [mailto:tina@elfi.elfi.org] 
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 8:08 AM
To: jim@jimthatcher.com; David Woolley; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Re: Fw: Disturbing trend in tables

On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 06:57:22PM -0600, Jim Thatcher wrote:

> The request was for "specific" examples. I would like to see those too. 

  I've actually manage to get my boss to give me a FP 2000 to play with,
 so lets see what we can find.

   * Test #1. Write a little bit of text, and click the 'increase indent'
     button twice.

     <blockquote>
       <blockquote>
        <p>This is a test</p>
       </blockquote>
     </blockquote>

     Folks, BLOCKQUOTE still does not produce 'indentation', even if some
     notious UAs do. It *might* - in a smart screen-reader - produce
something
     aking to " bla, bla, bla, and I quote <insert content of blockquote> ";
     which would be *ehem* so cool. No, it isn't incorrect HTML, but it sure
     isn't a good practice.

   * Test #2. Lets press CR a few times.

<p>&nbsp;</p>

<p>&nbsp;</p>

<p>&nbsp;</p>

<p>&nbsp;</p>

<p>&nbsp;</p>
 
     Ehm. Well. Um. Why ?


  ... and it sets the default charset of new documents to windows-1252. Why
  not iso-8859-1 or unicode ?

  Ok, so far I've not found any *HTML errors*, but some of these things may
  just present accessibility difficulties IMHO.

-- 
 - Tina
Received on Saturday, 13 January 2001 04:11:29 GMT

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