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Re: Clarification sought on checkpoint 10.1

From: Lloyd G. Rasmussen <lras@loc.gov>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 16:01:05 -0400
Message-Id: <>
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
From a user point of view, the pop-up window problem is like this:  I click
on a link and IE displays the new page.  Window-Eyes or HPR reads the new
page just fine.  But the back key, alt-left-arrow no longer works; it
simply forces the same window to be reloaded.  I use alt-F4 to close the
window and resume reading the main page from which that window had popped

Now imagine that several windows pop open during the browsing session.
It's easy to lose track, and I don't know for sure whether there are more
IE windows outside the one which currently has focus.  So I hit alt-F4, and
pretty soon I have closed the whole browser without intending to.  It's a
good thing IE maintains some history between sessions.

At 03:20 PM 5/30/01 -0400, you wrote:
>There are a couple of other issues. For some reason people seem to think it
>is a good idea to produce pop-ups that don't provide the normal amount of
>control (back buttons, resizeable, font size menu, etc), and instead of using
>HTML to do it they make them in javascript with no workable alternative.
>The basic problem (even if people do allow the user to control it) is a loss
>of context. So generally it is better not to pop up a window - users who want
>it are likely to know how to do it anyway - this is offered by most browsers.
>Where you are going to do so, as Rob says it is good to provide some explicit
>warning. Modern browsers are starting to do this anyway - iCab does, and
>Opera lets you control whether it happens or not.
>Hope that makes things a bit clearer...
>Charles McCN
>On Wed, 30 May 2001, Robert Neff wrote:
>  you can put a generic message on top if you have a  lot of links that will
>  basically tell the user that
>  the links will open a separate pop-up windows or one on top of the other.
>  note, the trick here is whether you open a new window on top of the current
>  window or a pop-up where you control the size, placement and commands. in
>  any case, let the user know.
>  you can also put a link next to the web site description that says
>  another case would be to post a message that you are leaving the site or
>  a message that says <you are exiting this site> some people have
>  attached.
>  also when i read, "do not change the current window without informing the
>  user", i take this to mean they are talking about the current site going
>  someplace else.  so an internal link changes the current window and the
>  external link will change the window - so this is ok.  trick is if new
>  windows are opened or if the new browser window is opened on top of the
>  current.
>  comments?
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Graham Oliver" <graham_oliver@yahoo.com>
>  To: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>  Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 11:22 PM
>  Subject: Clarification sought on checkpoint 10.1
>  > Checkpoint 10.1 states
>  > 'Until user agents allow users to turn off spawned
>  > windows, do not cause pop-ups or other windows to
>  > appear and do not change the current window without
>  > informing the user.'
>  >
>  > looking for clarification on the second part 'do not
>  > change the current window without informing the user.'
>  >
>  > Can someone tell me what this means please
>  >
>  > Cheers
>  > Graham Oliver

Braille is the solution to the digital divide.
Lloyd Rasmussen, Senior Staff Engineer
National Library Service f/t Blind and Physically Handicapped
Library of Congress    (202) 707-0535  <lras@loc.gov>
HOME:  <lras@sprynet.com>       <http://lras.home.sprynet.com>
Received on Wednesday, 30 May 2001 16:00:34 UTC

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