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Re: JAWS discards SPAN content?

From: David Poehlman <poehlman1@home.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 07:07:55 -0500
Message-ID: <003101c05dea$d60d4c20$2cf60141@mtgmry1.md.home.com>
To: <jim@jimthatcher.com>, "David Holstius" <holstius@pilot.msu.edu>, "'W3c-Wai-Ig@W3.Org'" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Cc: "Michael Hudson" <mjh@msu.edu>
it is the second problem we face.  Thanks for the tip.  I'll be
interested in what the change results in.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Thatcher" <thatch@attglobal.net>
To: "David Holstius" <holstius@pilot.msu.edu>; "'W3c-Wai-Ig@W3.Org'"
Cc: "Michael Hudson" <mjh@msu.edu>
Sent: December 03, 2000 11:18 PM
Subject: RE: JAWS discards SPAN content?


Are you saying that JAWS ignores the text you had as "some text:" in
example, or that JAWS does not recognize the fact that you have
"some text:" as the LABEL for the INPUT? The answer from Freedom
seems to have these two issues mixed up as well.

I would be very surprised if the first is the problem.

There is an explanation it yours is the second issue. Your code is
wrong. It
isn't just your example below either; the error is on the referenced
(http://holstius.com/span_tags.html). The value of the for attribute
in the
LABEL element must be the id of the corresponding form element, not

Yours is a beautifully laid out form and adding id="..." for each of
form elements should really do the job.

Accessibility Consulting

-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]On
Behalf Of David Holstius
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 5:53 PM
To: 'W3c-Wai-Ig@W3.Org'
Cc: Michael Hudson
Subject: JAWS discards SPAN content?

I've been messaging the kind folks over at Henter-Joyce since a
problem with
"missing content" on a web page appeared a week ago. Appearently, JAWS
discards content between SPAN tags; the problem's been reported with
IE 5.5
plus Jaws 3.7, if I recall correctly, but not with IE 5.0. An example
available at <http://holstius.com/span_tags.html>. Code in question
something like:

  <span class="X"><label for="MyField">Some text:</label></span><input
name="Myfield" ...

where I was using a rule:

  .X { width: 12em; text-align: right; }

to make the form's input fields align nicely with their labels without
resorting to a TABLE. (Just wanted to see if it worked.) Could have
just set
the class on the LABEL tag, yes, but still this is syntactically
valid. I
got a reply from an HJ representative:

> Currently Jaws VPC does not support these tags and therefore
> Jaws is prevented from seeing the associated web form field
> labels.  The temporary solution is to remove the surrounding
> span tags from the field labels. So this web page is using a
> web tag in which Jaws did not anticipate when attempting to
> grab the label for the fields.  You are correct in that the
> web page adheres to W3 standards but Jaws simply never has
> known about this tag.  I have put this into the database as
> record 5642 as a suggestion for support.

Workable, yes, but does anyone want to see content they've put between
(in many cases, put there to avoid deprecated or improper markup)
inaudible for users of JAWS and IE 5.5??? I urged this representative
to put
this high on his priority list of fixable bugs. If you visit the above
(<http://holstius.com/span_tags.html>) and don't hear anything like
"Author", "Title", "Publisher", etc. before the form fields, there's a
problem. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to check this out.

JAWS users, you may especially wish to ask HJ about this.

David Holstius
Webmaster, RCPD @ MSU
Received on Monday, 4 December 2000 07:08:14 UTC

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