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Re: [Fwd: FW: Re[2]: Database-driven Web pages]

From: Al Gilman <asgilman@iamdigex.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:27:18 -0400
Message-Id: <Version.32.20001027140413.042e0a70@pop.iamdigex.net>
To: wai-ig list <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Cc: "Barrett, Don" <Don_Barrett@ed.gov>
For database-driven applications, the general approach is a
model/view/controller paradigm, give or take.

What header cells go with a data cell in a table is most clearly stated in the
schema or query that selects the contents for the table; not in the tabular
presentation.  But if you are desiging a database-driven application, you have
access to that.  But you can look at the table linearization tool for examples

There is a similar concept in terms of state in dialog processes, but the
process schemas are not so widely articulated today as are the data schemas.

A state machine model [such as captured by the StateMate design tool] is the
kind of schema one needs to back up the cookies that form place-marks in the
process.  There is a process model in the minds of the people who encode the
cookies.  The trick is to get it written down and shared with the client.

This is actually the same issue that comes up concerning accessibility of
Voice-enabled portals.  What structural semantics need to be defined and
communicated surrounding a voice dialog using SSML encoding?  There has to
be a
safety net of some sort under the user's ability to mentally track their place
in the process.

The record of the W3C Device Independent Authoring workshop is worth reading
with regard to the original question. 


At 01:28 PM 2000-10-27 -0400, David Poehlman wrote:
>food for thought and discussion?  we might want to include those in this
>thread who are not on the list in the discussions.
>-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: FW: Re[2]: Database-driven Web pages
>Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:21:00 -0400
>From: "Barrett, Don" <Don_Barrett@ed.gov>
>Reply-To: basr-l@trace.wisc.edu
>To: "'basr-l@trace.wisc.edu'" <basr-l@trace.wisc.edu>
>If anyone has any thoughts/comments regarding the below messages, please
>send them along.
>Don Barrett
>-----Original Message-----
>From: MARC FINK [<mailto:MFINK@email.usps.gov%5D>mailto:MFINK@email.usps.gov]
>Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 11:35 AM
>To: Don_Barrett; pat.sheehan; Paul_Schafer; Bruce_Bailey;
>shelia_hamblin; Michele_Zozom; Elaine_Goheen; Ron_Luycx
>Cc: Gerald_Malitz
>Subject: Re[2]: Database-driven Web pages
>     Thanks, Don,
>     I'm especially interested in what approaches folks have used to
>     the following challenges:
>     1. When generating a linearized table dynamically, what have you
>     to be a useful method for generating cell coordinates--in other
>     how do you get the column and row headers associated with each cell
>     member? Judging from Don's comments below, perhaps it would be
>     possible to pass a row header variable to each cell in addition to
>     column header.
>     2. What work-around has anyone found for dealing with session and
>     variable ID's which are passed from one page to the next in Web
>     applications like e-commerce shopping carts? As you know, these can
>     very long strings which convey little meaning to screen readers.
>     These are sticky technical issues, but I see them as unavoidable
>     considering how important database-driven Web content is. This is
>     especially true when building pages that serve a search/query
>     to access large data/information resources in an efficient and
>     meaningful way.
>     Sincerely,
>     Marc Fink
>______________________________ Reply Separator
>Subject: RE: Database-driven Web pages
>Author:  Don_Barrett@ed.gov at INTERNET
>Date:    10/27/00 8:41 AM
>I am forwarding this message to a number of individuals on our team and
>the Web Development team in the hopes that we can garner some additional
>interest/information on the problems raised in Mark's message below.  If
>anyone has any thoughts on how we might proceed in framing this
>please share your thoughts.
>For example, here at Education, we have had a high degree of success
>Cold Fusion, in that the resulting interface is HTML, and all query and
>script strings are handled without interfering with the interface.  We
>have a few applications which involved the use of complex tables which
>needed column header identifiers to be read along with cell contents by
>screen reader in order to make the table intelligible.  This was handled
>the contractor by modifying the template so that header information
>would be
>dynamically generated in the table in each cell.  However, this solution
>not documented as far as I know, and it should be so others facing the
>problem can rely on this experience for an easy solution.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: MARC FINK [<mailto:MFINK@email.usps.gov%5D>mailto:MFINK@email.usps.gov]
>Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 5:31 PM
>To: Don_Barrett; pat.sheehan
>Subject: Database-driven Web pages
>     Dear Pat:
>     I recently had the pleasure of meeting and talking with you at the
>     IDEAS 2000 conference. (I work with the 508 team at the United
>     Postal Service.) I talked with you specifically about
>     database-generated Web pages and other interactive pages such as
>     elements and links which are query strings. We agreed that these
>     areas of great concern but have not really been dealt with in-depth
>     the present guidelines.
>     At the time I offered to pursue this issue further with you. Don
>     Barrett, who works periodically here at Postal Headquarters,
>     a similar interest in studying this area in more detail.
>     One goal of our mutual collaboration could be to share knowledge of
>     different and successful approaches we know of--hopefully saving
>     everyone time and money in the long run.
>     Let me know what you think, and thank you for your time.
>     Marc Fink
>     Web Project Manager
>     508 Team
>     USPS/LittonPRC
>     202 268-4716
Received on Friday, 27 October 2000 14:01:09 UTC

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