W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > January to March 2000

Re: Frames

From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <unagi69@concentric.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:28:00 -0500
Message-Id: <>
To: Melinda Morris-Black <melinda@ink.org>
Cc: WAI Interest Group Emailing List <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
aloha, melinda!

to answer your first question,

Could someone please explain to me how a web page with frames "sounds" to 
someone using voice assistive technologies? A web developer asked me this 

i regularly use JFW version 3.50.25, which (if one is using MSIE 4.x or 
5.x) endows the user with 3 ways of indicating frames via the HTML Options 
property sheet...  the HTML Options listed for quote New Frame Indication 
unquote, determine what JFW announces when the Virtual PC Cursor (which is 
active when navigating a document by structure or when using JFW's SpeakAll 
command, which causes JFW to read the document in its entirety (which is 
JFW's default action when MSIE finishes rendering the FRAMESET)

the user's choices are:

     1. No Indication
     2. Say Frame Name at Beginning and End (default)
     3. Say "New Frame" When Entering

when "No Indication" is selected, JFW does NOT announce:
    (a) the presence of frames;
    (b) the number of frames in the FRAMESET;
    (c) when the user navigates into a frame; or
    (d) when the beginning or end of the frame is encountered.

when "Say Frame Name at Beginning and End" is selected, JFW announces: the 
name of the frame when the Virtual PC Cursor reaches the beginning of a 
frame and when it encounters the end of that frame. (For example, "header 
frame Welcome to Our Web Site header frame end".).

When "Say 'New Frame' When Entering" is selected, JFW announces "New Frame" 
when the Virtual PC Cursor crosses a frame boundary.

Note: JFW 3.5 does not recognize, nor expose, the HTML 4.0 Loose DTD 
element IFRAME, which is used to create an inline sub-window.

When "Say Frame Name at Beginning and End" is selected, JFW announces: the 
name of the frame when the Virtual PC Cursor reaches the beginning of a 
frame and when it encounters the end of framed content. For example, by 
default, JFW would automatically read a FRAMESET, thus:

   Page has five frames and 29 links.
   Header frame
   Duke Ellington: A Duke Ellington Appreciation
   visited link graphic The Duke Ellington Society Presents
   visited link graphic Duke Ellington
   visited link graphic An Appreciation of The Great Duke Ellington
   Header frame end
   Body frame
   Navigation frame
   Duke Ellington and Duke Ellington Appreciation Navigation Panel
   link graphic nav1
   link graphic nav2
   link graphic nav3
   link graphic nav4
   link graphic nav5
   link graphic nav6
   link graphic nav7
   Navigation frame end
   Main frame
   A New Beginning: A Note from the President, David Hadju
   link graphic The Early Years
   link graphic The Great Ellingtonians
   link graphic Ellington the Songwriter
   [Main frame contents excised]
   link graphic Love You Madly, TDES, Inc.
   The Duke Ellington Society
   Box 31 Church Street Station, New York, NY 10008-0031
   Main frame end
   Body frame end

Note 1: The FRAMESET cited above was accessed on 18 January 2000, from:
It should also be noted that, while The Duke Ellington Society's site does 
utilize the FRAMESET, thanks to JavaScript, the NOFRAMES element defined 
for the site is invisible to anyone declaring Mozilla as their user agent.

Note 2: JFW failed to read the "footer frame" contained in the 
above-cited  FRAMESET, but since the source for the
footer frame contains several validity errors, I am not surprised that JFW 
could not expose the content of the
footer frame.  While I do not expect JFW (or the DOM, for that matter) to 
fix invalid markup, I am, however, surprised that JFW did not, at least, 
announce the presence of the footer frame.

When one invokes JFW's "List of Links" feature from within a FRAMESET, all 
of the links contained in the FRAMESET are contained in the "List of 
Links".  One cannot, however, configure the "List of Links" so as to expose 

hope this helps,

He that lives on Hope, dies farting
      -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1763
Gregory J. Rosmaita <unagi69@concentric.net>
    WebMaster and Minister of Propaganda, VICUG NYC
Received on Wednesday, 16 February 2000 15:18:37 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 13 October 2015 16:21:07 UTC