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Re: CSS-P Site Built For Accessibility

From: Joel Sanda <joelsanda@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 23:16:35 MST
Message-ID: <20000108061636.9033.qmail@hotmail.com>
To: charles@w3.org, 'w3c-wai-ig@w3.org'
Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org

Thanks for your response and critique. I hope my responses can explain why 
we chose to do some things the way we did.

The JavaScript is necessary to maintain the page layout in Netscape browsers 
when the window is resized. As we all know, you resize a window in Netscape 
and the CSS-P is thrown out the window. That JavaScript forces a reload, 
which restores the CSS-P formatting. It's actually a modification of some 
JavaScript published by O'Reilly in one of their JavaScript books - there 
version is buggy in a couple of Netscape 4.x versions, particularly on the 

Great feedback on the video and audio links. I will make that correction 

There is no fixed screen size - except that the site is coded for 800x600 
resolution, so the maximum width of all the page elements is 744 pixels. 
Coding for an 800x600 screen resolution is about as low as anyone can 
realistically go today - in my opionion. If you're refferring to the 
JavaScript, that does not create a fixed window size, only addresses what I 
mentioned earlier.

We've had some problems with external style sheets in some versions of 
Netscape 4.x - which is why this is in the index page. I don't know what the 
issue is, nor can we faithfully replicate it.

Finally, much of the source code is due to Netscape. The page was originally 
coded for IE4.0 and better, then reworked to work in Netscape. This was what 
we came up with. I suppose we're all stuck with code that isn't as clean as 
we'd like until Netscape opts to support more of the W3C's HTML4 and CSS2 
Recommendations. The page was at least 1/2 the size before we added 
functionality in Netscape.

Again, thanks for the comments!


Joel Sanda

----Original Message Follows----
From: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
To: Joel Sanda <joels@ecollege.com>
CC: "'w3c-wai-ig@w3.org'" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: Re: CSS-P Site Built For Accessibility
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 00:15:33 -0500 (EST)

5 minute review impressions...

It is unclear to me why javascript is necesary - I used a text and a graphic
browser to check it out without a lot of problem except where the links were
javascript references for a new window. This is not helpful for accessiblity
in general, and doing it through Javascript is a bad idea in particular.

Where there are audio/video versions of information it would be helpful to
provide more details about what they are - for example instead of the 
code something like

<p><a href="videofile"><img src="realvideo_icon" alt="welcome message
(video)"></a>&nbsp;&nbsp;<A href="videofile">Welcome message (video)</a></p>

something like

<p><a href="videofile" title="Welcome message, real Video version"><img
src="realvideo_icon" alt="Real Video" title="Real Video Icon"><span
class="nounderline">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>Welcome message (video)</a></p>

would be nice - provides the fact that it is realvideo (you should also use 
type attribute in the a element to do this in a machine-readable way) to the
user, and means tere is one link not two - having to skip through multiple
redundant links is something worth avoiding if possible - especially with a
head-switch or similarly slow input system.

Requiring a fixed screen size is not very helpful and should be avoided -
people who are using magnified screens (or even just getting the crucial 
by using a 30 or 40 pt font) are then unable to avoid having the problem of
scrolling horizontally as well as verticaly, which is a serious hassle.

For the rollover functions it would be nice to make them work for non-mouse
users - add an onFocus/onBlur set of triggers.

In general the text alternatives seem to be done intelligently. It would
probably have made more sense to use a single external stylesheet. And given
a regular image-naming schema you could write a short function to find the
names, and reduce the size of the page source by a substantial amount.


Charles McCN

Charles McCathieNevile    mailto:charles@w3.org    phone: +61 409 134 136
W3C Web Accessibility Initiative                    http://www.w3.org/WAI
21 Mitchell Street, Footscray, VIC 3011,  Australia

On Thu, 6 Jan 2000, Joel Sanda wrote:


   I'm a webmaster for eCollege.com - a company that puts schools on the
   Internet with a variety of solutions for online and distance education. 
   have been researching and implementing W3C WAI standards, and have a site 
   would like some feedback on. Our most recent attempt employs CSS 
   for nearly all layout. There are minor exceptions where we had to insert
   simple (no embedded) tables to ensure consistent formatting for both
   Netscape and Microsoft browsers.

   The site is at http://online.luc.edu/, and should comply with all WAI
   Priority 1 Recommendations, with a few minor exceptions. Some of the 
   areas do not yet have text-based versions available, although we do have 
   video and audio version.

   I have used JAWS 3.31 on the site, and it seems to do fairly well with 
   navigation and content. The site also passed Bobby and the W3C's CSS

   Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

   Joel Sanda

   10200 A East Girard Avenue
   Denver, CO 80231

   phone	303.873.7400  ext.3021
   fax    	303.873.7449

   "Educators Working for Educators"

Charles McCathieNevile    mailto:charles@w3.org    phone: +61 409 134 136
W3C Web Accessibility Initiative                    http://www.w3.org/WAI
21 Mitchell Street, Footscray, VIC 3011,  Australia (I've moved!)

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Received on Saturday, 8 January 2000 01:17:08 UTC

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