Re: Possible wording for 1.3.4?

I support this proposal.  (+1)

I believe inclusion of this SC in WCAG 2.1 is critical.  I think AWKs
proposal is doable and will help us establish the foundational first step
in creating real solutions for cognitive that are achievable.

G

glenda sims  |   team a11y lead   |    deque.com    |    512.963.3773
*web for everyone. web on everything.* -  w3 goals

[image: IAAP International Association of Accessibility Professionals:
Certified Professional in Accessibility Core Competencies (CPACC)]
<http://www.accessibilityassociation.org/certification>




On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 12:12 PM, Michael Gower <michael.gower@ca.ibm.com>
wrote:

> If something gets deprecated in 5.2, my page based on 5.1 is going to
> continue to use that deprecated element until such time as I update the
> page. How is this different?
>
> 4.1.2 does not define a spec for name, role or value.
>
>
> Michael Gower
> IBM Accessibility
> Research
>
> 1803 Douglas Street, Victoria, BC
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1803+Douglas+Street,+Victoria,+BC+%C2%A0V8T+5C3&entry=gmail&source=g>
>  V8T 5C3
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=1803+Douglas+Street,+Victoria,+BC+%C2%A0V8T+5C3&entry=gmail&source=g>
> gowerm@ca.ibm.com
> voice: (250) 220-1146 * cel: (250) 661-0098 *  fax: (250) 220-8034
>
>
>
> From:        Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
> To:        Marc Johlic <marc.johlic@gmail.com>, "White, Jason J" <
> jjwhite@ets.org>
> Cc:        WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> Date:        2018-01-12 10:05 AM
> Subject:        Re: Possible wording for 1.3.4?
> ------------------------------
>
>
> If not referenced in the SC, then the conformance can change.
>
>
>
> If I use HTML in a “living standard” way today and include all of the
> appropriate meanings/purposes that are defined, but then HTML adds
> meanings, how will I be able to handle my conformance? I haven’t changed
> the site, but the list changes. We can’t leave that open-ended.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> AWK
>
>
>
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>
> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
>
> Adobe
>
>
>
> akirkpat@adobe.com
>
> http://twitter.com/awkawk
>
>
>
> *From: *Marc Johlic <marc.johlic@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Friday, January 12, 2018 at 12:58
> *To: *"White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org>
> *Cc: *Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: Possible wording for 1.3.4?
>
>
>
> I agree with Jason.  I like having HTML 5.2 (or any standard) for a stake
> in the ground, but I think we can get around having that in the actual SC
> language as Jason describes..   We can reference it in the Understanding.
>
>
>
> -Marc
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 12:55 PM, White, Jason J <*jjwhite@ets.org*
> <jjwhite@ets.org>> wrote:
>
> No, I think it’s testable in that it only applies to the field types
> supported by the technology being used.
>
>
>
> *From:*Andrew Kirkpatrick [mailto:*akirkpat@adobe.com*
> <akirkpat@adobe.com>]
> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 12:53 PM
> *To:* White, Jason J <*jjwhite@ets.org* <jjwhite@ets.org>>; Marc Johlic <
> *marc.johlic@gmail.com* <marc.johlic@gmail.com>>; WCAG <
> *w3c-wai-gl@w3.org* <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: Possible wording for 1.3.4?
>
>
>
> Jason,
>
> My concern is that without attaching a reference to a defined list this
> becomes untestable.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> AWK
>
>
>
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>
> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
>
> Adobe
>
>
>
> *akirkpat@adobe.com* <akirkpat@adobe.com>
>
> *http://twitter.com/awkawk*
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Ftwitter.com-252Fawkawk-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cakirkpat-2540adobe.com-257Cd6ddd9365f2340afe82108d559e61973-257Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1-257C0-257C0-257C636513767211470990-26sdata-3D0pLgccc5eXldfA-252BrBDpNp6nNeOYT64pJHz5ffOnTWT4-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=_9rqR3xSCWQUlv9VpOcJwkP7H0XWQXmxeMmqQl6Fikc&m=jIERTA7hqsqdWVgv_Tk9IHX9WbpseUmdoVj3QrWfXGg&s=i1atiYmACZynEV620J6l6fuFK7qiks6Mb4LxoQps4lc&e=>
>
>
>
> *From: *"White, Jason J" <*jjwhite@ets.org* <jjwhite@ets.org>>
> *Date: *Friday, January 12, 2018 at 12:51
> *To: *Andrew Kirkpatrick <*akirkpat@adobe.com* <akirkpat@adobe.com>>,
> Marc Johlic <*marc.johlic@gmail.com* <marc.johlic@gmail.com>>, WCAG <
> *w3c-wai-gl@w3.org* <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
> *Subject: *RE: Possible wording for 1.3.4?
>
>
>
> For content implemented using technologies that support specifying the
> purpose of specific types of form input fields, the purpose of each such
> field of a supported type can be programmatically determined.
>
>
>
> *From:*Andrew Kirkpatrick [*mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com*
> <akirkpat@adobe.com>]
> *Sent:* Friday, January 12, 2018 12:29 PM
> *To:* Marc Johlic <*marc.johlic@gmail.com* <marc.johlic@gmail.com>>; WCAG
> <*w3c-wai-gl@w3.org* <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
> *Subject:* Re: Possible wording for 1.3.4?
>
>
>
> Thanks Marc.
>
>
>
> Here’s a version with further edits:
>
> In content implemented using technologies with support for identifying the
> expected meaning for form input data, the meaning can be programmatically
> determined for each user interface component that accepts user input
> corresponding to the user; inputs matching a meaning provided in the *HTML
> 5.2 Autofill field names*
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.w3.org-252FTR-252Fhtml52-252Fsec-2Dforms.html-2523autofill-2Dfield-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cjjwhite-2540ets.org-257C99e76206120a43d0157708d559e214d4-257C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65-257C0-257C0-257C636513749899118798-26sdata-3DYIsK5eWlo1OU-252BXq-252BdOXr245xRPZEfIvd5o6LCBeCjL0-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=_9rqR3xSCWQUlv9VpOcJwkP7H0XWQXmxeMmqQl6Fikc&m=jIERTA7hqsqdWVgv_Tk9IHX9WbpseUmdoVj3QrWfXGg&s=uFjRO94bHtuTYc3ZqqNn259qtZiCSzfWRAxSY7Y_FBg&e=>must
> expose that meaning except if the technology being used does not support a
> corresponding autofill meaning.
>
>
>
> What do people think?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> AWK
>
>
>
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>
> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
>
> Adobe
>
>
>
> *akirkpat@adobe.com* <akirkpat@adobe.com>
>
> *http://twitter.com/awkawk*
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Ftwitter.com-252Fawkawk-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cakirkpat-2540adobe.com-257Ce6416acb90d34228707808d559e5143a-257Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1-257C0-257C0-257C636513762788513280-26sdata-3DK2Pxk9EKsIqq42wTAblO1HC6NdU-252BKZZKiLCqWaUHMno-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=_9rqR3xSCWQUlv9VpOcJwkP7H0XWQXmxeMmqQl6Fikc&m=jIERTA7hqsqdWVgv_Tk9IHX9WbpseUmdoVj3QrWfXGg&s=apUOTb1RjezIb461EUkfLLg-s4YZIpkTFmoJF-kbKg4&e=>
>
>
>
> *From: *Marc Johlic <*marc.johlic@gmail.com* <marc.johlic@gmail.com>>
> *Date: *Friday, January 12, 2018 at 12:03
> *To: *Andrew Kirkpatrick <*akirkpat@adobe.com* <akirkpat@adobe.com>>,
> WCAG <*w3c-wai-gl@w3.org* <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: Possible wording for 1.3.4?
>
>
>
> I like the idea / premise and would +1 this replacing the wording in 1.3.4
> - and even keeping it at AA with this idea / premise / wording.
>
>
>
> I know we're out of time, but I would like to simplify the wording of the
> SC if possible.  Sorry - no ideas right off the top of my head..  I'll try
> to come up with suggestions.  It really just boils down to being as simple
> as Leonie asked..  if your tech supports autofill, use it - but I know the
> SC language needs to cover all of the bases.  (It just took me a few read
> throughs to "get it").
>
>
>
> Even if the wording stays as is, I would +1 this replacing current 1.3.4
> wording - and leaving in as AA.
>
>
>
> -Marc Johlic
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 10:43 AM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <*akirkpat@adobe.com*
> <akirkpat@adobe.com>> wrote:
>
> This SC seems to be saying that when using HTML input fields to collect
>    user information, the input element needs to have the autocomplete
>    attribute set with a value corresponding to the expected information
>    (based on the tokens defined in HTML5.2). Is this right?
>
> That is right. Of course there isn’t a value needed for every input, just
> the ones with the meaning that matches the list.
>
> The SC also applies to other technologies that support autofill. If a
> technology other than HTML supports autofill and has some of the values
> that HTML 5.2 supports, those values need to be supported when using that
> technology also.
>
> AWK
>
>
>
>    On 12/01/2018 14:47, Andrew Kirkpatrick wrote:
>    > OK, so here’s a new attempt at language for 1.3.4.
>    >
>    > This language is below. Several concerns are addressed:
>    >
>    >   * Uses a small and already-established list of values, based on the
>    >     values in HTML5.2, but only imposes those values on other
>    >     technologies if those technologies share the same values.
>    >   * Well-established browser support for input autofill, and provides
> a
>    >     pathway for cognitive AT innovation.
>    >   * Addresses a need established by the COGA group related to
> difficulty
>    >     filling out forms as well as providing the personalization
>    >     enhancements development pathway.
>    >   * WCAG doesn’t need to provide a specific list of inputs by
>    >     referencing the HTML list, but that list is versioned with HTML so
>    >     the level of testability doesn’t change until we update the
>    >     reference in WCAG 2.2 (or silver) to either an updated HTML or
>    >     COGA/ARIA spec.
>    >   * Specifically targeted to the user, so this isn’t for EVERY input
>    >     control, just a handful in the HTML spec (~40) that relate to
> common
>    >     user information (name, address, phone, credit card).
>    >
>    > Title: Support Common Input Fields
>    >
>    > SC Text:
>    >
>    > In content implemented using technologies with support for autofilling
>    > form inputs, the meaning of each user interface component that accepts
>    > user input corresponding to the user can be programmatically
> determined;
>    > inputs matching a meaning provided in the HTML 5.2 Autofill field
> names
>
>     > <
> *https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fhtml52%2Fsec-forms.html%23autofill-field&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C6fb521158e4c4022002908d559d1ba79%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636513679887347881&sdata=ToUIE6G%2FsKjrtn5JMEwM9hTps6iMOc6BtZwokR8IAzI%3D&reserved=0*
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttps-253A-252F-252Fwww.w3.org-252FTR-252Fhtml52-252Fsec-2Dforms.html-2523autofill-2Dfield-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cakirkpat-2540adobe.com-257C6fb521158e4c4022002908d559d1ba79-257Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1-257C0-257C0-257C636513679887347881-26sdata-3DToUIE6G-252FsKjrtn5JMEwM9hTps6iMOc6BtZwokR8IAzI-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=_9rqR3xSCWQUlv9VpOcJwkP7H0XWQXmxeMmqQl6Fikc&m=jIERTA7hqsqdWVgv_Tk9IHX9WbpseUmdoVj3QrWfXGg&s=KwhRWsNCxJLmPtTZSk__WqkmNiIbl094ZPTvDGD2kkU&e=>>
> must expose
>    > that meaning except if the technology being used does not support a
>    > corresponding autofill meaning.
>    >
>    > Note:
>    >
>    > The set of meanings for inputs is based on HTML 5.2. It is not
> expected
>    > that every technology supports the same set, so content implemented
>    > using a technology that supports a subset of the HTML 5.2 autofill
>    > meanings is not required to provide support for meanings that are not
>    > supported by that technology.
>    >
>    > Note:
>    >
>    > Some technologies are expected to provide a list of meanings that is a
>    > superset of the HTML 5.2 set; authors are encouraged to implement
>    > support for additional meanings in their content in order to provide a
>    > better experience for users.
>    >
>    >
> *https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frawgit.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2F1.3.4_autofill%2Fguidelines%2Findex.html%23identify-common-purpose&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C6fb521158e4c4022002908d559d1ba79%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636513679887347881&sdata=VHpV4ttfM7I2%2FFKZW6SCulpl8NgMOw%2BtZ2%2BRHugkCtE%3D&reserved=0*
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Frawgit.com-252Fw3c-252Fwcag21-252F1.3.4-5Fautofill-252Fguidelines-252Findex.html-2523identify-2Dcommon-2Dpurpose-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cakirkpat-2540adobe.com-257C6fb521158e4c4022002908d559d1ba79-257Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1-257C0-257C0-257C636513679887347881-26sdata-3DVHpV4ttfM7I2-252FFKZW6SCulpl8NgMOw-252BtZ2-252BRHugkCtE-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=_9rqR3xSCWQUlv9VpOcJwkP7H0XWQXmxeMmqQl6Fikc&m=jIERTA7hqsqdWVgv_Tk9IHX9WbpseUmdoVj3QrWfXGg&s=Yjp5j5hVz3iy85qva1keCGGlHeirevH2uVUoUmq3eR8&e=>
>    >
>    > If you like it, or don’t like it, please speak up ASAP!
>    >
>    > Thanks,
>    >
>    > AWK
>    >
>    > Andrew Kirkpatrick
>    >
>    > Group Product Manager, Accessibility
>    >
>    > Adobe
>    >
>    > *akirkpat@adobe.com* <akirkpat@adobe.com>
>    >
>    >
> *https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C6fb521158e4c4022002908d559d1ba79%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636513679887347881&sdata=LG6X%2BPhGvkisWjEcmBqgBy%2FteFAEl9tq2izWdcwmbio%3D&reserved=0*
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Ftwitter.com-252Fawkawk-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cakirkpat-2540adobe.com-257C6fb521158e4c4022002908d559d1ba79-257Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1-257C0-257C0-257C636513679887347881-26sdata-3DLG6X-252BPhGvkisWjEcmBqgBy-252FteFAEl9tq2izWdcwmbio-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=_9rqR3xSCWQUlv9VpOcJwkP7H0XWQXmxeMmqQl6Fikc&m=jIERTA7hqsqdWVgv_Tk9IHX9WbpseUmdoVj3QrWfXGg&s=61z0SOgNS_ugr3TpfSDFaxVPRZMKiPvZv2ekRdSXjbQ&e=>
>
>     >
>
>    --
>    @LeonieWatson @tink@toot.cafe *tink.uk*
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Ftink.uk-26data-3D02-257C01-257Cakirkpat-2540adobe.com-257C77857df5a72447614ae208d559de604e-257Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1-257C0-257C1-257C636513733998117846-26sdata-3DYtaWXq9SN2FjUMQYnIAGmvalPT6-252FHQxYEoBJO37shP0-253D-26reserved-3D0&d=DwMGaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=_9rqR3xSCWQUlv9VpOcJwkP7H0XWQXmxeMmqQl6Fikc&m=jIERTA7hqsqdWVgv_Tk9IHX9WbpseUmdoVj3QrWfXGg&s=48EzoMKMcsyu9bUTUr7uNc8q_W3HfRpqpiYVquicVKA&e=>carpe
> diem
>
>
>
>
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