Re: CFC - Proposed definition for 'Programatic Notification'

I seems that running this CFC definition when it is disassociated from the
SC to which it applies has caused confusion.


>  @jonathanThe definition seems to allow for using the speech API in a
browser to speak something.  This type of “announcement” may work for some
users but doesn’t seem like a solution that works for different types of
users with disabilities.  A programmatic notification should be something
that could be converted into different formats – speech, braille, pop-up,
vibration, etc.  If I am misunderstanding then I’d be happy to change my
vote.

This SC is all about helping those screen reader users. It has been that
from the beginning. It's a narrow and important  requirement
​ and it was approved on that basis​
.
​The main way of meeting it is using aria-live. I'm kind of surprised we're
talking about widening the SC like this at this late date.

Widening
​ it ​to other types of notifications would be a real change to it and how
would that be worded?

> @Steve
What is needed is a programmatic association given to the new content.

t
​hat's in the first bullet.

   - There is a programmatically determined relationship between the new
   content and the control that triggers it;

​

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On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Repsher, Stephen J <
stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com> wrote:

> -1
>
> I agree with Jonathon, and would add that his point is enforced by saying
> “announced”, which is biased towards certain users.  It also uses
> “notification” in the definition which is a practice we should avoid.
>
>
>
> Ultimately, I think the real solution here is to reword the SC to not use
> such a term.  “Programmatic notification” implies (and the definition
> doesn’t help) that content beyond the “change of content” is needed, but
> that is not the case.  What is needed is a programmatic association given
> to the new content.
>
>
>
> I also find the shopping cart example confusing because it seems like that
> is exempt by being the result of a user action.
>
>
>
> I’m sorry I missed reviewing this in detail on the survey.  This all needs
> further discussion in my opinion.
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> *From:* Jonathan Avila [mailto:jon.avila@levelaccess.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:25 PM
> *To:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> *Subject:* RE: CFC - Proposed definition for 'Programatic Notification'
>
>
>
> -1.  The definition seems to allow for using the speech API in a browser
> to speak something.  This type of “announcement” may work for some users
> but doesn’t seem like a solution that works for different types of users
> with disabilities.  A programmatic notification should be something that
> could be converted into different formats – speech, braille, pop-up,
> vibration, etc.  If I am misunderstanding then I’d be happy to change my
> vote.
>
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> *From:* Joshue O Connor [mailto:josh@interaccess.ie <josh@interaccess.ie>]
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 1:06 PM
> *To:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> *Subject:* CFC - Proposed definition for 'Programatic Notification'
>
>
>
> Call For Consensus — ends Friday October 6th at 1:00pm Boston time.
>
>
>
> The Working Group has a new proposed definition of "Programmatic
> Notification" as found in the Change of Content SC.
> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#purpose-of-controls
>
> The DFN text is:
>
> <dfn>
> Programmatic notification.
>
> Notification set by the content which can be announced to the user without
> virtual or actual focus, using methods that are supported by user agents,
> including assistive technologies.
>
> Example: a screen reader announces to a user that their shopping cart has
> been updated after they select an item for purchase.
> </dfn>
>
> And can be viewed here: https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/commit/
> b5c68e17f82feb0cdbbafc273f245b136a7445c4
>
>
>
> This was discussed on todays call: https://www.w3.org/2017/10/03-
> ag-minutes.html#item09
>
> This definition was previously missing from WCAG 2.1 and the proposal is
> to add it.
>
>
>
> If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position that have not
> been discussed already and feel that those concerns result in you “not
> being able to live with” this decision, please let the group know before
> the CfC deadline.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Joshue O Connor
> Director *| InterAccess.ie *
>