- From: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>
- Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:46:33 -0500
- To: David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com>
- Cc: "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAKdCpxwYTEjWTHLtb6im-HLOCu6DrGED3N4Ap6b4tHADs8-XvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Hi David, > If they can demonstrate the site working on one mobile technology stack that should be sufficient. I'm sorry, I have to *strongly *disagree with that. The W3C has a long-standing policy of two independent implementations, and I would expect we maintain that minimum requirement going forward. I cannot support a SC that is targeted towards addressing an issue (or issues) with a specific piece of hardware or software (or platform), and if we cannot demonstrate that the requirement can be achieved on more than one platform, then we cannot make it a SC Requirement today (hard as that may be to accept). As somebody once noted <http://www.davidmacd.com/blog/what-are-WCAG-success-criteria.html#p7>: Success Criteria are technology neutral JF On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 11:57 AM, David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com> wrote: > > Try as I might, I've not gotten VoiceOver to work on my Samsung Galaxy > yet, and I don't think I ever will... > > Yes it is shorthand, however, I don't think we can require developers to > support every environment. Especially buggy environments ... (such as > Talkback/Android) > > If they can demonstrate the site working on one mobile technology stack > that should be sufficient. > > Cheers, > David MacDonald > > > > *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* > Mobile: 613.806.9005 <(613)%20806-9005> > > LinkedIn > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> > > twitter.com/davidmacd > > GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> > > www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/> > > > > * Adapting the web to all users* > * Including those with disabilities* > > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy > <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> > > On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 12:37 PM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com> > wrote: > >> As an aside... >> >> > The original intention of the SC is to require VoiceOver compatibility >> for mobile views >> >> Try as I might, I've not gotten VoiceOver to work on my Samsung Galaxy >> yet, and I don't think I ever will... >> >> (I realize that this was more "shorthand" than anything else, but we also >> need to be mindful that we are looking for functional outcomes, and not SC >> that address software shortcomings with specific tools - which I know David >> knows. đ) >> >> JF >> >> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 8:04 PM, David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Jason >>> >>> The original intention of the SC is to require VoiceOver compatibility >>> for mobile views, especially inaccessible hamburger menus. Personally, >>> I'd like to simply see a qualification to WCAG 2.0 or 2.1 Conformance that >>> a page includes changes caused by breakpoints. >>> >>> Your wording requires ALL AT to be tested and we found that to be a >>> limitless scope of every AT available in the Apple store. We could narrow >>> the scope by limiting the AT the way we did in the SC proposals to >>> "platform assistive technology that remaps touch gestures". This is really >>> the crux of the problem as we saw it on the task force. >>> >>> *** >>> If (1) the content includes features that adapt the presentation or >>> functionality for specific hardware or software environments (e.g., as >>> rendered on devices with different screen sizes), and (2) a different >>> platform assistive technology that remaps touch gestures is used on those >>> environments then the ways in which technologies are relied upon to satisfy >>> the success criteria are only accessibility-supported if they are >>> compatible with user agents and assistive technologies in each of the >>> environments for which enhancements are provided. >>> *** >>> >>> I know its a mouthful but if its accurate we can do a plain language >>> pass later. >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> David MacDonald >>> >>> >>> >>> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* >>> Mobile: 613.806.9005 <(613)%20806-9005> >>> >>> LinkedIn >>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> >>> >>> twitter.com/davidmacd >>> >>> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> >>> >>> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/> >>> >>> >>> >>> * Adapting the web to all users* >>> * Including those with disabilities* >>> >>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy >>> <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 4:46 PM, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org> wrote: >>> >>>> This is interesting. I donât think screen size is the right concept to >>>> use for purposes of of the clarification that we need. Also, this proposal >>>> doesnât actually clarify the application of the âaccessibility-supportedâ >>>> requirement by asserting the relevant set of user agents and assistive >>>> technologies that need to be compatible with the ways of using technologies >>>> relied on to meet the success criteria. I appreciate its simplicity, >>>> however. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david@can-adapt.com] >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 13, 2017 4:39 PM >>>> *To:* White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org> >>>> *Cc:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> >>>> *Subject:* Re: Moving Issues 62, 63, 71 to the conformance section >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Here's another option which might be easier: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *** >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "If components change form based on screen size, they remain >>>> programmatically determinable and keyboard operable." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *** >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It would be placed after the last paragraph in the section >>>> "Understanding Requirement 2" just before the Notes at the end of the >>>> section. https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/conforma >>>> nce.html#uc-conformance-requirements-head >>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2FUNDERSTANDING-WCAG20%2Fconformance.html%23uc-conformance-requirements-head&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=OzSa6RsINaMaOkGRz5hP6NJHqSU8BoO86HE7OGWPrVw%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> David MacDonald >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* >>>> >>>> Mobile: 613.806.9005 <(613)%20806-9005> >>>> >>>> LinkedIn >>>> >>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fdavidmacdonald100&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=EB3oYNzfR2hkc1qw6IbuaCsDcEc8ZU06qljcnuXQQAo%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>>> twitter.com/davidmacd >>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdavidmacd&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=QtuGL8qoBb92JkUa87O%2Bt6l0JmOqZxrzu5lI4GuGy5M%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>>> GitHub >>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FDavidMacDonald&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=vyZLBGm1BRgreiXBLdYxV4z%2Bnz32zcW9yZ8te9QQCsI%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>>> www.Can-Adapt.com >>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.can-adapt.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=uSTGQHJwALkXIBDE0NfG%2BrfFzN9pAH4kXR5YNYXnwH0%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> * Adapting the web to all users* >>>> >>>> * Including those with disabilities* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy >>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidmacd.com%2Fdisclaimer.html&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=arDC0ucVLw4b1n%2BnUUjj4ZfdTTpk3XOuENhWpddbRPA%3D&reserved=0> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 12:50 PM, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks, David â see further comments below. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david@can-adapt.com] >>>> >>>> I like your second condition, adding an "AND" for different AT in those >>>> environments. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Regarding the first condition, Gregg expressed concern regarding using >>>> broad strokes for the customized view. He suggested we limit it to "size". >>>> He was nervous that there might be customized delivery of content such >>>> information spoken in a car etc, that by its very nature could not meet the >>>> conformance language and inhibit adoption of the standard. >>>> >>>> *[Jason] I would like to see good examples of this that would meet both >>>> of my conditions and which would raise difficulties.* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> So if I was to take your proposal and adjust it to size, it would look >>>> something like this. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If (1) the content includes features that adapt its presentation or >>>> functionality based on screen sizes in specific hardware or software >>>> environments, and (2) different user agents or assistive technologies are >>>> in use in each of these respective environments, then the ways in which >>>> technologies are relied upon to satisfy the success criteria are only >>>> accessibility-supported if they are compatible with user agents and >>>> assistive technologies in each of the environments for which adaptations >>>> are provided. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> However, arguing against myself, your proposal does limit the scope to >>>> environments with different AT. If there is no AT for that environment, >>>> then maybe your language is OK. >>>> >>>> *[Jason] Yes, Iâm in favor of mentioning screen size, if at all, only >>>> as an example. Both of the conditions do need to be met for the proposal to >>>> apply, and it only clarifies (at most, expands) the nature of the >>>> compatibility guarantee.* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or >>>> confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom >>>> it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail >>>> in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or >>>> take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete >>>> it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank you for your compliance. >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or >>>> confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom >>>> it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail >>>> in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or >>>> take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete >>>> it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited. >>>> >>>> Thank you for your compliance. >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> John Foliot >> Principal Accessibility Strategist >> Deque Systems Inc. >> john.foliot@deque.com >> >> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion >> > > -- John Foliot Principal Accessibility Strategist Deque Systems Inc. john.foliot@deque.com Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
Received on Friday, 14 July 2017 17:47:09 UTC