- From: Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu>
- Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:07:15 -0500
- To: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>
- Cc: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>, Detlev Fischer <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>, GLWAI Guidelines WG org <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
- Message-Id: <F3B63B71-A065-4585-9CAE-0EEA3524E99C@umd.edu>
Hi John The comments were about OPEN CAPTIONS — where the captions are embedded in the video. Closed captions were a separate discussion. Gregg C Vanderheiden greggvan@umd.edu > On Feb 8, 2017, at 3:04 PM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com> wrote: > > Hi Gregg, > > > It would require that the author use a captioning method that blocks the user from seeing the movie behind the captions. > > This is true *only* if/when the video is rendered "Full screen" in a browser - otherwise as previously noted WebVTT allows for placement of the bounding box "anywhere", including above, below or to the side of the video playback region. And while the MAUR does not have any "legal" standing (like WCAG 2.0 has) the W3C Note is none-the-less the current W3C 'recommendation' (Small 'R') for media content: > > [CC-5] Support positioning in all parts of the screen - either inside the media viewport but also possibly in a determined space next to the media viewport. This is particularly important when multiple captions are on screen at the same time and relate to different speakers, or when in-picture text is avoided. > NOTE > The minimum requirement is a bounding box (with an optional background) into which text is flowed, and that probably needs to be pixel aligned. The absolute position of text within the bounding box is less critical, although it is important to be able to avoid bad word-breaks and have adequate white space around letters and so on. There is more on this in a separate requirement. > > The caption format could provide a min-width/min-height for its bounding box, which typically is calculated from the bottom of the video viewport, but can be placed elsewhere by the web page, with the web page being able to make that box larger and scale the text relatively, too. The positions inside the box should probably be into regions, such as top, right, bottom, left, center. > > https://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/#captioning <https://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/#captioning>JF > > On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 1:53 PM, Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu <mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>> wrote: > >> On Feb 8, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com <mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>> wrote: >> >> if they are open captions — then mandating contrast mandates that captions be of the kind that have a block of solid color behind the text, hiding the scene - since there is no way to really control the background otherwise. This is not the preferred captioning for most people because it blocks the scene. >> This isn’t exactly correct since open captions are burned into the video > correct > >> and an author could control the color of the captions so that if the first half of a video had video content that provided a light background the captions could be dark to achieve high contrast and for the second half if the background is dark the captions could be adjusted accordingly. > > How do you control the color of the captions when the background image is changing frame by frame? > >> Or the author might opt for a caption area background and consistent text color. > > Yes -that is what I said above. It would require that the author use a captioning method that blocks the user from seeing the movie behind the captions. > >> The appearance of the captions can’t be changed once published by the author, but the author has a lot of control up to that point. > > agree > >> >> AWK >> >> >>> On Feb 8, 2017, at 3:51 AM, Detlev Fischer <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de <mailto:detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>> wrote: >>> >>> I can't see why poor contrast of captions should not fail SC 1.4.3. Why just advisory? Captions are clearly a form of text, and screenshots can provide clear evidence of failure. >>> In audits I frequently see white caption text on transparent grey background which means contrast is FAR below 4.5:1 whenever the video background happens to be bright. >>> Detlev >>> >>> -- >>> Detlev Fischer >>> testkreis c/o feld.wald.wiese >>> Thedestr. 2, 22767 Hamburg >>> >>> Mobil +49 (0)157 57 57 57 45 <tel:+49%201575%207575745> >>> Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5 >>> >>> http://www.testkreis.de <http://www.testkreis.de/> >>> Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites >>> >>> Jonathan Avila schrieb am 07.02.2017 18:14: >>> >>>> >>>> David, I have not failed videos with insufficient contrast. However, that situation and open captions with poor contrast are something I would point out as advisory or best practice. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jonathan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca <mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 6:50 AM >>>> To: Glenda Sims; Gregg C Vanderheiden; Jonathan Avila >>>> Cc: Aparna Pasi; WCAG >>>> Subject: Re: does anyone currently fail colour contrast for text in timed media >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks Glenda >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hey Gregg, I'll loop you in. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, I agree audio description (or transcript) should reflect important visual information including text, but I'm thinking about 1.4.3 Colour contrast of text in movies ... In this case it's yellow text on the whiteboard in an animated movie. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Here's my take. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 1.4.3 applies to "images of text" which have been "rendered in a non-text form *in order to achieve a particular effect* ..." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> So the glossary is assigning an intention to the creation of the text. The author put it in an image because she wanted it in a special font, or a special position in relation to a background which might have been hard to do with CSS etc... This is not the case for a movie. Authors rarely make movies with the intention of achieving a particular text effect. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I haven't been watching movies looking for colour contrast failures of significant text. I was wondering if any others (Glenda, Jon, John, Gregg, etc.) would agree. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> David MacDonald >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> CanAdapt Solutions Inc. >>>> >>>> Tel: 613.235.4902 <tel:(613)%20235-4902> >>>> >>>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100 <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>> >>>> >>>> >>>> twitter.com/davidmacd <http://twitter.com/davidmacd> <http://twitter.com/davidmacd <http://twitter.com/davidmacd>> >>>> >>>> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>> >>>> >>>> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/> <http://www.can-adapt.com/ <http://www.can-adapt.com/>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Adapting the web to all users >>>> >>>> >>>> Including those with disabilities >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 11:50 PM, Glenda Sims <glenda.sims@deque.com <mailto:glenda.sims@deque.com> <mailto:glenda.sims@deque.com <mailto:glenda.sims@deque.com>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hey David, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Looking at the glossary term for "image of text" leads me to believe that I'd need to watch the video to know for sure. If the text on the blackboard is significant and there is not audio reference to it....then, I think I would fail it under 1.2.5 Audio Description (Prerecorded) >>>> >>>>> >>>>> image of text >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> text that has been rendered in a non-text form (e.g., an image) in order to achieve a particular visual effect >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Note: This does not include text <http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#textdef <http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#textdef>> that is part of a picture that contains significant other visual content. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Example: A person's name on a nametag in a photograph. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> >>>> G >>>> >>>> >>>> glenda sims | team a11y lead | deque.com <http://deque.com/> <http://deque.com <http://deque.com/>> | 512.963.3773 <tel:(512)%20963-3773> <tel:(512)%20963-3773> >>>> >>>> web for everyone. web on everything. - w3 goals >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 10:24 PM, Aparna Pasi <aparna.pasi@deque.com <mailto:aparna.pasi@deque.com> <mailto:aparna.pasi@deque.com <mailto:aparna.pasi@deque.com>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hey David, >>>> >>>> >>>> To be honest, I haven't failed video animation or captions as I haven't seen such a scenario. >>>> >>>> >>>> I believe we should fail them as they are conveying information however, success criteria doesn't include anything about timed media. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> >>>> Aparna >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 4:30 AM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca <mailto:david100@sympatico.ca> <mailto:david100@sympatico.ca <mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> For instance a video an animation of someone in front of a blackboard with text on it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The definition appears to limit the SC to static images... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thoughts? >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> David MacDonald >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> CanAdapt Solutions Inc. >>>> >>>> Tel: 613.235.4902 <tel:(613)%20235-4902> <tel:(613)%20235-4902> >>>> >>>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100 <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>> >>>> >>>> >>>> twitter.com/davidmacd <http://twitter.com/davidmacd> <http://twitter.com/davidmacd <http://twitter.com/davidmacd>> >>>> >>>> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>> >>>> >>>> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/> <http://www.can-adapt.com/ <http://www.can-adapt.com/>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Adapting the web to all users >>>> >>>> >>>> Including those with disabilities >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>>> Satya Jaya Aparna Pasi >>>> >>>> >>>> CPACC Professional| Senior Accessibility Consultant >>>> >>>> >>>> Deque Software >>>> >>>> >>>> aparna.pasi@deque.com <mailto:aparna.pasi@deque.com> <mailto:aparna.pasi@deque.com <mailto:aparna.pasi@deque.com>> | +91-7093400949 <tel:+91%2070934%2000949> <tel:+91%2070934%2000949 <tel:+91%2070934%2000949>> >> > > > > > -- > John Foliot > Principal Accessibility Strategist > Deque Systems Inc. > john.foliot@deque.com <mailto:john.foliot@deque.com> > > Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
Received on Wednesday, 8 February 2017 20:07:54 UTC