Re: Length of line

If a particular mobile browser can reflow, (which I haven't seen), then
what is stopping it from passing the SC without the exception?

Cheers,
David MacDonald



*Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*

Tel:  613.235.4902

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On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 8:50 PM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> > There is an exception for mobile devices.
> (1) The user-agent provides no means of re-flowing content.
>
> ​Except, I've seen content re-flow on mobile devices, as long as the page
> is not locked down​, so I don't think that would pass muster (IMHO).
>
> JF
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 4:49 PM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> >you cannot have it all (i.e. at a fixed width of a device - say a cell
>> phone - if you enlarge your text to be very large (I'm seeing 400% being
>> tossed around a fair bit as a new normal), then even 25 characters will
>> very likely introduce horizontal scrolling,
>>
>> There is an exception for mobile devices.
>> (1) The user-agent provides no means of re-flowing content.
>>
>> > if you enlarge your text to be very large (I'm seeing 400% being tossed
>> around
>>
>> The SC is to be tested without enlarging the text.
>> ​ ​
>> "
>> ​...
>>  a mechanism is available to adjust the line length
>> ​...
>>  *without increasing the font in the user agent,*...
>>
>> I think for the first draft we introduce the SCs separately " (1) line
>> length, (2) One column, (3) text zoom
>>
>> I think this one stands on its own ok and meets the 8 requirements s for
>> acceptance ... I share your concerns about whether it's 25 or some larger
>> threshold, but besides that I think it holds together and is ready for
>> public scrutiny. I'm 25 hours into this SC, and hitting my limit of
>> bandwidth, unless someone else wants to take it over.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David MacDonald
>>
>>
>>
>> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>>
>> Tel:  613.235.4902 <(613)%20235-4902>
>>
>> LinkedIn
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>>
>> twitter.com/davidmacd
>>
>> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
>>
>> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>> *            Including those with disabilities*
>>
>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
>> <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 5:17 PM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Laura,
>>>
>>> Yes, and thanks for reminding me of that, although I am unsure whether
>>> Wayne is/was using Gmail to respond to this thread. Still, it is a useful
>>> metric to keep in mind.
>>>
>>> However, if I am to understand the proposed SC requirement here, I
>>> should be able to somehow shorten those line-lengths to nothing greater
>>> than 25 characters, and how to do that consistently across multiple
>>> web-sites / web-pages is unclear as this time.
>>>
>>> What does the page author have to do (or not do) to ensure that users
>>> who have this requirement can meet success? I believe I understand the need
>>> that is driving this proposed SC, but have not seen any technique or
>>> example of how this could be achieved.
>>>
>>> I also continue to struggle with the intersection between line length,
>>> font-face and size, fixed view-port widths, and the issues around
>>> horizontal scrolling, as it seems you cannot have it all (i.e. at a fixed
>>> width of a device - say a cell phone - if you enlarge your text to be very
>>> large (I'm seeing 400% being tossed around a fair bit as a new normal),
>>> then even 25 characters will very likely introduce horizontal scrolling,
>>> due to the sheer size of each character.)
>>>
>>> JF
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 2:29 PM, Laura Carlson <
>>> laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi John,
>>>>
>>>> You wrote to Wayne:
>>>>
>>>> > I am looking forward to seeing your examples,
>>>> > while at the same time observing that your
>>>> > email's longest line is 72 characters in
>>>> > length.
>>>>
>>>> Gmail's plain text mode foces hard breaks so no line is longer than 78
>>>> characters.
>>>>
>>>> Check:
>>>> https://mathiasbynens.be/notes/gmail-plain-text
>>>>
>>>> Kindest Regards,
>>>> Laura
>>>>
>>>> On 1/11/17, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com> wrote:
>>>> > Hi Wayne,
>>>> >
>>>> > Thank you for weighing in here, as yes, there is a struggle to
>>>> completely
>>>> > understand what you are asking for in the Success Criteria. I am
>>>> looking
>>>> > forward to seeing your examples, while at the same time observing
>>>> that your
>>>> > email's longest line is 72 characters in length.
>>>> >
>>>> > You wrote: "The point here is the user can choose" - which gets a 100%
>>>> > thumbs up from me, but what does that mean for the author (as opposed
>>>> to
>>>> > the software/hardware tools being used by the user)?
>>>> >
>>>> > And when you speak of 25 characters as being "a little big" what do
>>>> you
>>>> > mean by that (please)? 25 characters at 16 pt. is not very big; 25
>>>> > characters at 32pt. is big, and 25 characters at 32pt. X 400%
>>>> magnification
>>>> > is enormous, so at a minimum I suspect we need to be also stating a
>>>> unit
>>>> > measurement at a fixed magnification point for "testing" and
>>>> compliance
>>>> > purposes. Do you have any thoughts there?
>>>> >
>>>> > One thing I want to address however is your claim "...because today
>>>> > hyphenation is not well supported." What is this assertion based
>>>> upon? The
>>>> > research I've done shows that this is not the case, that currently
>>>> support
>>>> > for CSS hyphenation, while not at 100%, is actually quite good today
>>>> > (source: http://caniuse.com/#search=hyphens)  I hate to sound like a
>>>> broken
>>>> > record, but I've posted this source now 3 times - can you or somebody
>>>> else
>>>> > either refute it or accept it as "true" today? If true, can we
>>>> dispense
>>>> > with the "hyphenation is not well supported" claims on this list?
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> >
>>>> > JF
>>>> >
>>>> > On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Wayne Dick <wayneedick@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Hi All,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 50 characters is too much. 30 is too much. 25 is a little big but
>>>> most
>>>> >> people with low vision can live with it. I know that you have a rough
>>>> >> time setting up examples right now, but they are not hard to do with
>>>> >> practice. I'll get to that tomorrow.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The point here is the user can choose. Normal users probably won't
>>>> >> choose to shorten text because authors construct columns of text for
>>>> >> normal users. Users with dyslexia will probably choose moderate lines
>>>> >> 40-55. People who need enlargement and people who have medical field
>>>> >> loss will choose 25.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> From the usability point of view character count is the item to
>>>> >> measure because it is based on lexical data (letters, digits,
>>>> >> punctuation, etc.). Word wrapping is a lexical operation and so is
>>>> >> reading. You don't write a 1-meter essay. You write 1000 words. if
>>>> you
>>>> >> want to measure readable of language you must use linguistic
>>>> measures.
>>>> >> EM like measures might do.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The key her is user choice. Suppose a German has peripheral field
>>>> >> loss, a common enough occurrence. The overwhelming number of German
>>>> >> words are less than 15 characters. See
>>>> >> http://www.news-by-design.com/infographic/language-length/ .
>>>> >> 25-letter words occur, but not many. So you have a choice: You can
>>>> >> short lines and set your user style sheet to break words (because
>>>> >> today hyphenation is not well supported). Or, you can choose wider
>>>> >> lines. Your choice.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> it is not exact but 15em usually gives about 25 characters.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> To say authors aren't used to short columns is just silly. In four
>>>> >> column format 3 of four columns will be close to 25 characters or
>>>> >> less.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> This is not as hard as it seems. Also if you have normal vision your
>>>> >> conventional knowledge will not do you much good.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> i suggest finding a cardboard tube, like a toilet paper tube. Cut it
>>>> >> down to where you can only fit 25 characters inside and then try to
>>>> >> read one of these email string through the cardboard tube.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> if you have peripheral field loss or use a screen magnifier, lens or
>>>> >> CCTV that's what it's like. This problem can be solved, but not by
>>>> >> making lines too long.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> More to come.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Wayne
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 10:21 AM, David MacDonald <
>>>> david100@sympatico.ca>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >> > CSS hyphenation (when it is supported) offers the author control,
>>>> which
>>>> >> is
>>>> >> > fine...
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Cheers,
>>>> >> > David MacDonald
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > CanAdapt Solutions Inc.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Tel:  613.235.4902
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > LinkedIn
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > twitter.com/davidmacd
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > GitHub
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > www.Can-Adapt.com
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >   Adapting the web to all users
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >             Including those with disabilities
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy
>>>> policy
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 12:28 PM, John Foliot <
>>>> john.foliot@deque.com>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> > most (all) bowsers don't add hyphens
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Sorry David, I have to disagree: most browsers today support the
>>>> CSS
>>>> >> >> hyphens attribute (https://www.w3.org/TR/css-tex
>>>> t/#hyphens-property),
>>>> >> >> confirmed by CanIUse here: http://caniuse.com/#search=hyphens
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> See also:
>>>> >> >> http://blog.fontdeck.com/post/9037028497/hyphens
>>>> >> >> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/hyphens
>>>> >> >> https://css-tricks.com/almanac/properties/h/hyphenate/
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> JF
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:08 AM, David MacDonald <
>>>> >> david100@sympatico.ca>
>>>> >> >> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> > I would propose we look to Root EMS instead for at least part
>>>> of
>>>> >> >>> > this
>>>> >> >>> > proposal, and that we also include a magnification point (200%?
>>>> >> 400%?) as
>>>> >> >>> > also part of the requirement:
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> I think the latest proposal addresses the magnification issue by
>>>> >> >>> requiring that the SC be met without zooming text. The downside
>>>> of
>>>> >> REMs are
>>>> >> >>> that it is harder to understand, it is a specific technology,
>>>> and it
>>>> >> is a
>>>> >> >>> relative measurement. Patrick, Jon A., what are your thoughts?
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> I would also like Makoto and Swetank to respond to the
>>>> hyphenation
>>>> >> >>> situation that most (all) bowsers don't add hyphens, and that
>>>> CSS can
>>>> >> be use
>>>> >> >>> to override any hyphenation.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> Cheers,
>>>> >> >>> David MacDonald
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> CanAdapt Solutions Inc.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> Tel:  613.235.4902
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> LinkedIn
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> twitter.com/davidmacd
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> GitHub
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> www.Can-Adapt.com
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>   Adapting the web to all users
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>             Including those with disabilities
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy
>>>> >> >>> policy
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:24 AM, John Foliot <
>>>> john.foliot@deque.com>
>>>> >> >>> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> David wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> > We have an established precedent in 1.4.8 of using characters
>>>> to
>>>> >> >>>> > measure line length.
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> Hi David,
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> While we may have precedent there, SC 1.4.8 is a AAA Success
>>>> >> >>>> Criteria,
>>>> >> >>>> and I am hard-pressed personally to recall a site that meets
>>>> (and
>>>> >> reports
>>>> >> >>>> compliance to) that SC consistently. As we've seen, "character"
>>>> is a
>>>> >> very
>>>> >> >>>> imprecise unit of measurement.
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> I think we need to step back a bit; what is the real goal we are
>>>> >> trying
>>>> >> >>>> to achieve here? I don't think it has anything to do with actual
>>>> >> character
>>>> >> >>>> count (per-se), but rather that we need developers to not break
>>>> text
>>>> >> re-flow
>>>> >> >>>> (perhaps to a minimum of 25 REMs - Root EMs). Level-set: LVTF,
>>>> is
>>>> >> this the
>>>> >> >>>> real "goal" here?
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> However, given fixed view-port sizes and magnification there
>>>> will
>>>> >> >>>> necessitate a trade-off, or else I could envision developers
>>>> will
>>>> >> create one
>>>> >> >>>> line in their document at font-size:40px - perhaps an h1 - and
>>>> then
>>>> >> use that
>>>> >> >>>> as the 'measuring point': 25 X 40px = 1000px, which, as a
>>>> "baseline,
>>>> >> would
>>>> >> >>>> then "allow" paragraph text at 16px. to far exceed the 25
>>>> character
>>>> >> count
>>>> >> >>>> being proposed (1000 / 16 = 62.5 "characters") It is for this
>>>> reason
>>>> >> that I
>>>> >> >>>> would propose we look to Root EMS instead for at least part of
>>>> this
>>>> >> >>>> proposal, and that we also include a magnification point (200%?
>>>> >> 400%?) as
>>>> >> >>>> also part of the requirement:
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> <draft> For the visual presentation of all text, text should
>>>> >> >>>> naturally
>>>> >> >>>> re-flow to a minimum of 25 REMs at 200% magnification without
>>>> >> horizontal
>>>> >> >>>> scrolling, with the following exceptions. </draft>
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> ...or something along those lines. By moving away from actual
>>>> >> characters
>>>> >> >>>> (and their "imperfect" unit of measurement), we will likely
>>>> address
>>>> >> most
>>>> >> >>>> concerns around internationalization, and with a more precise
>>>> unit
>>>> >> >>>> of
>>>> >> >>>> measurement, we will be able to better test (mechanically)
>>>> >> >>>> compliance
>>>> >> to the
>>>> >> >>>> new SC. (I'd also look to have this be an AA requirement, as
>>>> opposed
>>>> >> to an
>>>> >> >>>> A, but that is a different discussion...)
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> Thoughts?
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> JF
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 8:59 AM, John Foliot <
>>>> john.foliot@deque.com>
>>>> >> >>>> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> David wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> > No browser that I know would do this:
>>>> >> >>>>> >
>>>> >> >>>>> > "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their
>>>> >> >>>>> > establish-
>>>> >> >>>>> > ment party for now and forever"
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> Erm... https://www.w3.org/TR/css-text/#hyphens-property
>>>> >> >>>>> and http://caniuse.com/#search=hyphens
>>>> >> >>>>> (which suggests support in most browsers with the exception of
>>>> >> >>>>> Android's native browser)
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> JF
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 8:52 AM, David MacDonald
>>>> >> >>>>> <david100@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> Perhaps I'm missing something. For example say there is the
>>>> line
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their
>>>> >> >>>>>> establishment party for now and forever"
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> And lets say that at the end of the word "their" we have a
>>>> count
>>>> >> >>>>>> of
>>>> >> 45
>>>> >> >>>>>> characters (I didn't count). The browser window is narrowed
>>>> to 50
>>>> >> >>>>>> characters. Then the line will wrap after "their" and it would
>>>> >> >>>>>> pass.
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of
>>>> their  (45
>>>> >> >>>>>> characters)
>>>> >> >>>>>> establishment party for now and forever ..."
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> This would pass because there are 50 or less characters on
>>>> that
>>>> >> line.
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> No browser that I know would do this:
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their
>>>> >> >>>>>> establish-
>>>> >> >>>>>> ment party for now and forever"
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> In other words.... most lines will be less than 50 characters
>>>> if
>>>> >> >>>>>> 50
>>>> >> is
>>>> >> >>>>>> the threshold we decide on.
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> We have an established precedent in 1.4.8 of using characters
>>>> to
>>>> >> >>>>>> measure line length. I think in a dot release we should stick
>>>> with
>>>> >> that,
>>>> >> >>>>>> unless I'm missing something.
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> Cheers,
>>>> >> >>>>>> David MacDonald
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> CanAdapt Solutions Inc.
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> Tel:  613.235.4902 <(613)%20235-4902>
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> LinkedIn
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> twitter.com/davidmacd
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> GitHub
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> www.Can-Adapt.com
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>   Adapting the web to all users
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>             Including those with disabilities
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our
>>>> privacy
>>>> >> >>>>>> policy
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Patrick H. Lauke
>>>> >> >>>>>> <redux@splintered.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>> On 11/01/2017 14:12, David MacDonald wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Hi Shwetank
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Can you help us understand how hyphenation works in those
>>>> >> languages?
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> In
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> English and French, (the languages I speak), the web the
>>>> page
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> just
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> wraps
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> the entire word if it doesn't fit. So there is not generally
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> hyphenation
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> for web writing.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>> Regardless of language, hyphenation will be up to the
>>>> browser to
>>>> >> >>>>>>> do
>>>> >> >>>>>>> (support isn't fantastic / cross-browser just yet), or would
>>>> >> require
>>>> >> >>>>>>> additional JS solutions that forcibly break and hyphenate
>>>> words
>>>> >> (which would
>>>> >> >>>>>>> likely lead to issues where AT would start to read word
>>>> fragments
>>>> >> rather
>>>> >> >>>>>>> than full words). So there are potential technical
>>>> limitations to
>>>> >> overcome
>>>> >> >>>>>>> here as well.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>> P
>>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> David MacDonald
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> Tel:  613.235.4902
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> LinkedIn
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> twitter.com/davidmacd <http://twitter.com/davidmacd>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> /  Adapting the web to *all* users/
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> /            Including those with disabilities/
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our
>>>> privacy
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> policy
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Shwetank Dixit
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> <shwetank@barrierbreak.com <mailto:shwetank@barrierbreak.
>>>> com>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>     FWIW, I agree with John that character length is not a
>>>> good
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> criteria
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>     at all for this purpose, especially from the viewpoint
>>>> of
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>     non-english languages. I believe the research and
>>>> guidelines
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>     mentioned in this discussion have not included languages
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> from
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>     scripts apart from the Latin script (please correct me
>>>> if
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> I’m
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> wrong)
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>     like Devnagari, Gurkumikhi, or any from the CJK ones for
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> example.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>     I am especially concerned about the possibility of
>>>> >> significantly
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>     increased ‘hyphenation’ that this could result in (which
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> John
>>>> >> >>>>>>>> also
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>     mentioned) causing bigger problems from a cognitive
>>>> >> perspective.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>     —
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>     Shwetank
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     On Wednesday, Jan 11, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Michael Pluke
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     <Mike.Pluke@castle-consult.com
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     <mailto:Mike.Pluke@castle-consult.com>> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     I can see that the choice of characters as the unit of
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> measurement
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     can result in very different end-results that you get
>>>> >> depending
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> on
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     the chosen font-size and font-face. This may make this
>>>> unit
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> less
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     useful from an LV perspective. ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     However I still think that, from a cognitive
>>>> perspective,
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> it
>>>> >> is
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     relevant and important to set a maximum line length in
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> characters.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     Long lines with many words/characters are demonstrably
>>>> hard
>>>> >> to
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     read for everyone but, most particularly for people
>>>> with
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     dyslexia.  The 80 characters in SC 1.4.8
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-
>>>> >> audio-contrast-visual-presentation.html>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     will cause significant difficulties for many people
>>>> with
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> dyslexia.____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     EA has quoted several research-based sources that offer
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> realistic
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     line-length proposals. From reading the extract from
>>>> >> 'Dyslexia
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> in
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     the Digital Age' that EA linked-to (
>>>> >> http://tinyurl.com/jra7hk3)
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> I
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     don’t think that it gives very strong evidence that 55
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> characters
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     is the only choice. I’m a great fan of the realistic
>>>> >> proposals
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     that Luz Rello makes (based on her research
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     (http://www.luzrello.com/Publ
>>>> ications_files/uais2015.pdf
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     <http://www.luzrello.com/Publ
>>>> ications_files/uais2015.pdf>))
>>>> >> so
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> I
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     have confidence for specifying line lengths in the
>>>> 44-66
>>>> >> range
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     (although it was non-dyslexic people who benefitted
>>>> most
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> from
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> 44
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     character columns). The British Dyslexia Style Guide
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> http://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/common/ckeditor/filemanager/
>>>> >> userfiles/About_Us/policies/Dyslexia_Style_Guide.pdf
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> <http://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/common/ckeditor/
>>>> >> filemanager/userfiles/About_Us/policies/Dyslexia_Style_Guide.pdf>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     recommends that “Lines should not be too long: 60 to70
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     characters.”____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     *Conclusion*: Based on all of the above I think
>>>> that:____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>       * To benefit LV users we should avoid having SCs that
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> give
>>>> >> a
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         line length based on the number of characters;____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>       * To benefit people with dyslexia (and also the
>>>> general
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         population) the 1.4.8-based 80 character maximum in
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         proposal #51 <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21
>>>> /issues/51>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> should
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         be reduced to a figure no greater than 70
>>>> characters
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> (and
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         probably no less than 60).____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     Mike____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     *From:*John Foliot [mailto:john.foliot@deque.com
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     <mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>]
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     *Sent:* 10 January 2017 23:56
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     *To:* David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     <mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     *Cc:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org <mailto:
>>>> w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     *Subject:* Re: Length of line____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     TL;DR - Using 'character' as a unit of measurement is
>>>> >> extremely
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     problematic, and I do not support it's use here. ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     **************____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     Some thoughts after today's call.____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     I personally have significant concerns over
>>>> prescribing a
>>>> >> fixed
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     number of characters, especially such a low number, as
>>>> a
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> unit
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> of
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     measurement. ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     *Internationalization:*____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     When we factor in both Internationalization and
>>>> languages
>>>> >> other
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     than English, we will quickly arrive at a point where
>>>> the
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> number
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     25 is smaller than numerous words in different
>>>> languages
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_words
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_words>), which
>>>> will
>>>> >> then
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     require word hyphenization (most probably supplied by
>>>> the
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> content
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     author, until such time as AI can do that job
>>>> seamlessly).
>>>> >> This
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     then suggests to me that we will start to see 'forced'
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> line-breaks
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     again (using the presentational <br>), which could
>>>> have a
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     significant impact on screen flow in RWD (Responsive)
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> layouts
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     (i.e. the cure being worse the the symptom).____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     *Font-size and font-face choices:*____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     Equally, as mentioned on the call, another factor in
>>>> >> measuring
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     this, related to horizontal scrolling, is font-size.
>>>> For
>>>> >> those
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> of
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     you using HTML-rich mail clients, and using a 25
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> character-count
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     example taken from
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> http://www.litscape.com/words/length/25_letters/25_letter_
>>>> >> words.html
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> <http://www.litscape.com/words/length/25_letters/25_
>>>> >> letter_words.html>:____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         electroencephalographical____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>               ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         (Gmail's____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         '____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         S____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         mall' sizing)____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         electroencephalographical      (Gmail's____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         'Normal' sizing)____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         electroencephalographical      (Gmail's____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         'Large' sizing)____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         electroencephalographical      (Gmail's____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         'Huge' sizing)____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     Q: How do we test for "success" here? Even the final
>>>> line
>>>> >> above
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     (Gmail's "Huge" font-size) could introduce horizontal
>>>> >> scrolling
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> at
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     some level of magnification on some devices, yet at 25
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> characters
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     "meets" the current wording of the proposed SC.  ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     Additionally, different font-faces will have different
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> font-width
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     characteristics, depending on the font-face chosen. For
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> example:____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         electroencephalographical      (Gmail 'sans-serif',
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> size
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         'normal')____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         electroencephalographical    (Gmail 'Verdana', size
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> 'normal') ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         electroencephalographical     (Gmail 'Wide', size
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> 'normal')____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     ...once again, depending on the font-face choice we
>>>> have 3
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     different line-lengths, and so I question the overall
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> choice
>>>> >> of
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     "character" as a unit of measurement here.____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     *How to 'Succeed'/Author push-back:*____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     The current proposed language for this SC reads:____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         For the visual presentation of all text, a
>>>> mechanism is
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         available such that line length is user
>>>> adjustable, to
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> 25
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         characters, with no two-dimensional scrolling
>>>> required,
>>>> >> and
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         with the following exceptions.____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     However, it is unclear what a page author can or
>>>> should do
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> to
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> meet
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     this requirement____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     , as it very much feels like a User-Agent requirement
>>>> as
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> much
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> as
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     anything else. For SC 1.4.8, one technique is ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     G204
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     <https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/20
>>>> 16/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20160105/
>>>> >> G204>:
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     /Not interfering with the user agent's reflow of text
>>>> as
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> the
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     viewing window is narrowed/____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     /, /which seems to me to at least address the larger
>>>> issue
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     (avoid horizontal scrolling) without prescribing a
>>>> specific
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     line-length.____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     Finally, the current Success Criteria that requires an
>>>> 80
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     character line-length (____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     SC 1.4.8
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-
>>>> >> audio-contrast-visual-presentation.html>)
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     is a AAA Success Criteria requirement, and yet this new
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> proposed
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     SC is at level A, at roughly 1/3 the 80-char limit.
>>>> ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     Sadly (but not totally unreasonably) ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     I suspect that we will get significant push-back at
>>>> level
>>>> >> A____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     .____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     JF____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>      ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 3:31 PM, David MacDonald
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     <david100@sympatico.ca <mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote:____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         I'm the manager of Issue #57 line length.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/57
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/57>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         I was asked to explain why 25 characters was
>>>> chosen as
>>>> >> the
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         threshold. I deferred to the LVTF____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         since I did not write that requirement____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         . One point that was mentioned was that 25
>>>> characters
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> is
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> about
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         the width of most news article columns.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         I did a survey of several top news sites on the
>>>> web and
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         measured the length of characters when text size is
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> 100%
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> (no zoom)
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         -CNN 74____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         characters without counting spaces 87 with spaces.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> could
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         narrow to 35 (w/ spaces) in Responsive
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         -NBC 61 no spaces 73 with spaces, could narrow to
>>>> 39
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> (w/
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> spaces)
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         -ABC NEWS 81 no spaces 92 Spaces, could narrow to
>>>> 43 in
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> responsive
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         -FoxNews 67 no space 79 spaces could narrow to 45
>>>> in
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> responsive
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         -Le Droit french 74 no space, 86 with spaces, no
>>>> >> responsive
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         -Google News 73 No Spaces 87 with spaces could
>>>> narrow
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> to
>>>> >> 44
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> in
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         responsive
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         - Huff post French 67 no spaces 79 with spaces no
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> responsive____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         N____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         one of these sites passed the new SC proposal of 25
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         characters. They all went to horizontal scroll when
>>>> >> window
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> was
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         narrowed less than those ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         minimum character ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         widths shown above.____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         Do we____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>          want to make the minimum a little wider, say 45
>>>> or 50
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> characters.
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         For reference, the following is about 25
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> characters:____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         "This test assesses basic"____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         Cheers,
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         David MacDonald____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>          ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         Tel:  613.235.4902 <(613)%20235-4902>
>>>> <tel:(613)%20235-4902>____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         LinkedIn
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         twitter.com/davidmacd
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> <http://twitter.com/davidmacd>____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>           ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         /  Adapting the web to *all* users/____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         /            Including those with disabilities/____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         If you are not the intended recipient, please
>>>> review
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>         our privacy policy
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     -- ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     John Foliot____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     Principal Accessibility Strategist____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     Deque Systems Inc.____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     john.foliot@deque.com <mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>
>>>> ____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     __ __
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>     Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> inclusion____
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>> --
>>>> >> >>>>>>> Patrick H. Lauke
>>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>> www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
>>>> >> >>>>>>> http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ |
>>>> http://redux.deviantart.com
>>>> >> >>>>>>> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> --
>>>> >> >>>>> John Foliot
>>>> >> >>>>> Principal Accessibility Strategist
>>>> >> >>>>> Deque Systems Inc.
>>>> >> >>>>> john.foliot@deque.com
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> --
>>>> >> >>>> John Foliot
>>>> >> >>>> Principal Accessibility Strategist
>>>> >> >>>> Deque Systems Inc.
>>>> >> >>>> john.foliot@deque.com
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>>> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> --
>>>> >> >> John Foliot
>>>> >> >> Principal Accessibility Strategist
>>>> >> >> Deque Systems Inc.
>>>> >> >> john.foliot@deque.com
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > John Foliot
>>>> > Principal Accessibility Strategist
>>>> > Deque Systems Inc.
>>>> > john.foliot@deque.com
>>>> >
>>>> > Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Laura L. Carlson
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> John Foliot
>>> Principal Accessibility Strategist
>>> Deque Systems Inc.
>>> john.foliot@deque.com
>>>
>>> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> John Foliot
> Principal Accessibility Strategist
> Deque Systems Inc.
> john.foliot@deque.com
>
> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
>

Received on Thursday, 12 January 2017 02:43:28 UTC