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Re: Next steps for accessible authentication

From: lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 06:23:16 +0300
To: Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu>
Cc: "Jason J White" <jjwhite@ets.org>, "Alastair Campbell" <acampbell@nomensa.com>, "public-cognitive-a11y-tf" <public-cognitive-a11y-tf@w3.org>, "w3c-waI-gl@w3. org" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-Id: <15cc384ba44.110782fe538161.6373524466724018759@zoho.com>
Hi Gregg

These apps are often blocked for copying in passwords, Many places do not consider them secure,  and do not help for copying two step authentication. 


I realy do not understand the other comments bellow. 2 step authentication is where a text is sent to a different device. the text message with a code shows that you have the phone of the account holder in  your possession. If the text message also contains a simple link giving you the option of pressing the link or coping the code then that process is usable without requiring copying.


All the best

Lisa Seeman

LinkedIn, Twitter





---- On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 06:06:01 +0300 Gregg C Vanderheiden&lt;greggvan@umd.edu&gt; wrote ---- 

Hi Lisa 

Are you saying that you cannot do a copy/paste operation accurately?   



There are any number of apps that will store whatever information you want to use securely and allow you to copy and paste that information into a web page.   


I was referring to someone who had a cognitive disability that was so severe that they could not operate one of those.  




Other questions with the items in the list. 


- two step authentication that has a link to press as an alternative to entering a code

how is this authenticating?    
how is pressing one link - two factors?   what is the first factor?  
What does the person have to do after pressing the link to authenticate — that doesn’t just bring you back to this same list (so this option is really a no-op) ? 


 - two step authentication using devices that sends a tokens via Bluetooth

how does the web author know that there is bluetooth on all the devices that users would use?



 - Email resetting is an option for most places,  including google if people have an alternative address

How does the page author know that the user has an email address
how would the user log into their email without remembering or copying ?   (that is not a web page) 



 - login in via something like facebook

If the author chooses this option — it would force all users to get Facebook accounts.   Cannot be an option



 -  conformance to the web authentication specification at https://www.w3.org/TR/webauthn/
Interesting.  How would the user use this API without having to authenticate to it?    
If the author chooses this option - then EVERYONE would have to use something that conforms.  
We can’t have an author option that not all users can understand much less use.  








Sorry Lisa.   I also am really working hard on very easy accessible authentication.   And have not found a good solution yet either.  But I don’t see this approach as viable.    And I don’t think a web only solution can be found.  I think that it needs to be a hardware/ software solution — and the author can’t be held responsible for hardware. 


 g 


Gregg C Vanderheiden
greggvan@umd.edu





 
 
On Jun 19, 2017, at 10:07 PM, lisa.seeman &lt;lisa.seeman@zoho.com&gt; wrote:

Hi Gregg 


Someone like me, who has a very week if any visual memory, can not often copy information accurately. 


I leave it to you to decide if that makes me very seriously cognitively disabled ;)


Clearly I can however use all the solutions mentioned. 

All the best

Lisa Seeman

LinkedIn, Twitter







---- On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 22:57:52 +0300 Gregg C Vanderheiden&lt;greggvan@umd.edu&gt; wrote ----


Sorry I wasn’t asking if people with cognitive disabilities had been asked.  — I was asking 


Were people with cognitive disabilities     that are severe enough that they cannot copy information,    tested with each of these techniques and were they able to do each of them.   


If not then they are not alternatives for them.


If people can copy information then they don’t need these 


This is a pretty severe cognitive disability — and it looked to me - from my work with people with cognitive disabilities,  like anyone who was unable to copy information would be unable to do many or all of these.     I am delighted to be proven wrong.    Has someone demonstrated that these are doable by the group this is targeted to?  (people who cannot even copy information) 


thanks  

 g 


Gregg C Vanderheiden
greggvan@umd.edu





 
 
On Jun 19, 2017, at 2:56 PM, lisa.seeman &lt;lisa.seeman@zoho.com&gt; wrote:

Hi Gregg

Yes, they have been reviewed by security experts and people with cognitive disabilities.


We are also reaching out to the web authentication group to see if they have any issue wit the current draft

All the best

Lisa Seeman

LinkedIn, Twitter





---- On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 21:23:18 +0300 Gregg C Vanderheiden&lt;greggvan@umd.edu&gt; wrote ---- 

+1 to Jason’s concern about security of these.  Have they been vetted by a security specialist? 




Also — are these supposed to be easier than copying something ? 


All of these appear to be cognitively much more complicated than copying information from one place into the field.   As such - is this something where the solution requires more cognitive skills than the problem? 


Has anyone demonstrated that someone who cannot copy information — can do any/all of these?     That these are indeed simpler? 


If not - then is there any grounds for assuming that any of these will reduce the cognitive demands on a person…..


These all sound complicated to me….


 g 


Gregg C Vanderheiden
greggvan@umd.edu





 
 
On Jun 19, 2017, at 1:48 PM, White, Jason J &lt;jjwhite@ets.org&gt; wrote:

 
 
From: lisa.seeman [mailto:lisa.seeman@zoho.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 1:30 PM




We are allowing multiple alternatives, such as:

 two step authentication that has a link to press as an alternative to entering a code
[Jason] What are the security implications, if any? The server comprising the destination of the link could be attacked (e.g., by trying different values for the data carried in the link in succession).
 two step authentication using devices that sends a tokens via Bluetooth
[Jason] These are promising as an idea, but without standardization, the user may end up having to use several different devices with different Web sites – not a desirable outcome. I think these could only be required in WCAG when the standards are in place.
 Email resetting is an option for most places,  including google if people have an alternative address
[Jason] This isn’t suitable for high security applications, since anyone who gains access to the e-mail account can compromise the security of the system.
login in via something like facbook
[Jason] This involves trusting/relying on a third party to perform the authentication. If I remember correctly, this is known to have serious security shortcomings.
conformance to the web authentification specification at https://www.w3.org/TR/webauthn/

[Jason] This is the most promising of your alternatives. Will it be practically available by the time WCAG 2.1 enters Candidate Recommendation?
 
In short, I think most of the options are at least suspect from a security point of view.
 





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Received on Tuesday, 20 June 2017 03:23:55 UTC

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