W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-gl@w3.org > April to June 2017

Re: Issue 77 Resize Content SC

From: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 06:21:22 -0400
Message-ID: <CAAdDpDbv3sU=PKkPV-QWge8ZLZbYC7t10YodaQgESEiMbpGjTg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Greg Lowney <gcl-0039@access-research.org>
Cc: Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu>, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, "w3c-waI-gl@w3. org" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
I agree with "direction of the text"  which could be defined as follows
adapted from the CSS base direction definition:

Direction of the text: Primary direction in which text is ordered on a line
and defines on which sides the “start” and “end” of a line are.



Cheers,
David MacDonald



*Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*

Tel:  613.235.4902

LinkedIn
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>

twitter.com/davidmacd

GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>

www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>



*  Adapting the web to all users*
*            Including those with disabilities*

If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
<http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>

On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 8:28 PM, Greg Lowney <gcl-0039@access-research.org>
wrote:

> I'm concerned that a literal reading of "does not require the user to
> scroll to read a line of text" means that content that doesn't fit on one
> screen fails, as the user has to scroll to reach additional lines. (This
> was not a problem in 1.4.8 due to surrounding language.) Therefore I lean
> towards the earlier model that referred to the reading direction of the
> text.
>
> Additionally, if we go with either wording we may need to add exceptions
> for (1) content that is not generated by the page author, and (2) content
> that includes both vertical and horizontal text, and (3) content rendered
> by the user agent in ways that cannot be controlled by the page author.
>
> Why? Keep in mind that (a) content may mix languages with different
> reading directions, and (b) portions of the content may have different
> authors, and so the language of the text being displayed may not be under
> the control of, or even known by, the primary author of the page. (Examples
> include web-based user agents such as forums, messengers, wikis, and email
> front-ends.)
>
> In addition, (c) the page author has no control over how user agents
> choose to offer scrolling in standard controls such as text edit fields and
> pop-ups. In fact, the "does not require the user to scroll" wording could
> be construed to prohibit single-line edit controls because there
> reading-direction scrolling is the only way to access long strings, unless
> we add an exception. (That *is* true of 1.4.8.)
>
> Finally, (d) where web-based user agents present user-generated content
> that might include whitespace:nowrap, &nbsp;, or the that can force the
> line to extend beyond the available width, this SC implies the web-based
> user agents have to explicitly strip out all of those before it gets passed
> to the hosting user agent for rendering. Again, an exception for content
> not generated by the page author would avoid that, if we want to. (It
> *might* be covered by the "spatial layout" exception, but I think that's
> too much of a stretch.)
>
>     Greg
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Issue 77 Resize Content SC
> From: Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu> <greggvan@umd.edu>
> To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> <akirkpat@adobe.com>
> Cc: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca> <david100@sympatico.ca>,
> Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com> <acampbell@nomensa.com>, "w3c-waI-gl@w3.
> org" <w3c-waI-gl@w3.org> <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> Date: 5/8/2017 1:01 PM
>
> I think it will be stranger with the “spatial layout”   though you might
> be able to drop the “fixed”.
>
> Otherwise - there may be many other things that lumped in here  (though I
> guess “particular presentation” does get you out of trouble with things we
> may not have thought of….
>
> *g*
>
> Gregg C Vanderheiden
> greggvan@umd.edu
>
>
>
>
> On May 8, 2017, at 4:53 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:
>
> There have also been a few comments on “fixed spatial layout”.
> Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality,
> and in a way that does not require the user to scroll to read a line of
> text, with the exception of any part of the content where a particular
> presentation is essential to the information being conveyed.
>
> This takes the “particular presentation” from 1.4.5 rather than saying
> “fixed spatial layout”.  Just a thought to help eliminate a new phrase…
>
> Thanks,
> AWK
>
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
> Adobe
>
> akirkpat@adobe.com
> http://twitter.com/awkawk
>
> From: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
> Date: Monday, May 8, 2017 at 16:07
> To: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>, Gregg Vanderheiden <
> greggvan@umd.edu>
> Cc: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: Issue 77 Resize Content SC
> Resent-From: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> Resent-Date: Monday, May 8, 2017 at 16:08
>
> Longer, but addresses the scrolling concern:
> Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality,
> and in a way that does not require the user to either scroll horizontally
> to read a line of horizontal text or to scroll vertically to read a line of
> vertical text, with the exception of any part of the content where fixed
> spatial layout is essential to the information being conveyed.
>
> I think that we can support this one in Understanding and save the extra
> text:
>
> Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality,
> and in a way that does not require the user to scroll to read a line of
> text, with the exception of any part of the content where fixed spatial
> layout is essential to the information being conveyed.
>
> I think that the concept is simple enough that we should be able to write
> the SC without referring to the CSS definition for inline base direction,
> which I agree with Gregg will make the SC harder to read.
> AWK
>
>
>
> Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality, *and
> without requiring scrolling along the <a>inline base direction </a> of the
> text, *except for parts of the content where fixed spatial layout is
> necessary to use or meaning.”
>
>
> writing mode:
>
> A writing mode in CSS is determined by the writing-mode
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23propdef-writing-mode&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=QqVfbcixYHZ0X5Jk4OhXFBMebepkp4MXeTyJrf6wyLM%3D&reserved=0>
> , direction
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23propdef-direction&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=PUKCautJqOEEOeuYKkmaRzg6aBq%2Bc5HkdBydbMzayl0%3D&reserved=0>,
> and text-orientation
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23propdef-text-orientation&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=F3e%2Fma6Ozqpp3rSrsikYO5T2Q20p%2F17R0iYvpCyYDZ0%3D&reserved=0>
>  properties. It is defined primarily in terms of its inline base direction
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23inline-base-direction&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=7xIhp883htGKP6MwbaQOy%2FJpfmDEkk1qAapV%2BEdkwq0%3D&reserved=0>
>  and block flow direction
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23block-flow-direction&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=e%2BADEzAK2xIEwSWa%2Bnxb%2BomG3HenPbF%2FRBiPgsSvchQ%3D&reserved=0>
> :
> [image: Latin-based writing mode]
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2Fdiagrams%2Ftext-flow-vectors-tb.svg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=qeD5m548jUSGid%2B0Bde48PnDy2%2BXWkpQ6iZZU4%2FvQos%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Latin-based writing mode
> [image: Mongolian-based writing mode]
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2Fdiagrams%2Ftext-flow-vectors-lr-reverse.svg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=f2DxwdFFJxy0tqG46ASCpJYwAx8cKIvkB3Ocvs%2F3t0g%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Mongolian-based writing mode
> [image: Han-based writing mode]
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2Fdiagrams%2Ftext-flow-vectors-tb.svg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=qeD5m548jUSGid%2B0Bde48PnDy2%2BXWkpQ6iZZU4%2FvQos%3D&reserved=0>[image:
> Han-based writing mode]
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2Fdiagrams%2Ftext-flow-vectors-rl.svg&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=TcW0Z3goocsN8dou%2FVPTiieJUp1fTyGnvkocFwfwUVs%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Han-based writing
>
> The inline base direction is the primary direction in which content is
> ordered on a line and defines on which sides the “start” and “end” of a
> line are. The direction
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23propdef-direction&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=PUKCautJqOEEOeuYKkmaRzg6aBq%2Bc5HkdBydbMzayl0%3D&reserved=0> property
> specifies the inline base direction of a box and, together with the
> unicode-bidi
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fcss-writing-modes-3%2F%23propdef-unicode-bidi&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=gJVojn3eqmo50UZ0G6ZbyXN9Lh1HeohaDJ%2BcZ0JoWfc%3D&reserved=0> property
> and the inherent directionality of any text content, determines the
> ordering of inline-level content within a line.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> David MacDonald
>
>
> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
> Tel:  613.235.4902 <(613)%20235-4902>
> LinkedIn
>
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fdavidmacdonald100&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=AeMSTlFTtX5aMeordFImAGGmLkMHhRhu7z8nuuonZtM%3D&reserved=0>
> twitter.com/davidmacd
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdavidmacd&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=ZwXQNHCuxZwqiJLnf%2Fckj%2FjiX9JOLWPBoGV%2FSVtyA1M%3D&reserved=0>
> GitHub
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FDavidMacDonald&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=Hao6ZRFvURbqXkyaRanwFs1w2XnAKR%2FfqyhCnd7YMhc%3D&reserved=0>
> www.Can-Adapt.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.can-adapt.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=iSOeotC2a2nCCgtr1coAXN09MvjzXDO3ZTyXpmG532s%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
> *  Adapting the web to all users*
> *            Including those with disabilities*
>
> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidmacd.com%2Fdisclaimer.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7C077cfe9535234296003208d4964a998a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636298694553792137&sdata=aKiDLp1mKGaLXGKPe4E4rJJpoBEBSb2BodwIsBW7IEM%3D&reserved=0>
>
> On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Gregg C Vanderheiden <greggvan@umd.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> hmmm
>>
>> ok as long as you define a line of text.   Else I might look at a line of
>> word wrapped text — and think you mean the whole line including the wrapped
>> part — which indeed might require scrolling if the line is long enough and
>> the screen small.
>>
>> not sure how to clear up that ambiguity but other wiser seems to work.
>> maybe just add *single*?
>>
>> Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality,
>> and in a way that does not require the user to scroll to read a *single* line
>> of text, with the exception of any part of the content where fixed spatial
>> layout is essential to the information being conveyed.
>>
>>
>> *g*
>>
>> Gregg C Vanderheiden
>> greggvan@umd.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 8, 2017, at 2:26 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> To adjust the text, I’d suggest:
>> “Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality,
>>  *and without requiring scrolling in the direction of text* except for
>> parts of the content where fixed spatial layout is necessary to use or
>> meaning.”
>>
>> Cribbing from 1.4.8, I think that we can keep it simple and say "in a way
>> that does not require the user to scroll to read a line of text"
>>
>> How about:
>> Content can be resized to 400% without loss of content or functionality,
>> and in a way that does not require the user to scroll to read a line of
>> text, with the exception of any part of the content where fixed spatial
>> layout is essential to the information being conveyed.
>>
>> AWK
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 9 May 2017 10:22:00 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 9 May 2017 10:22:01 UTC