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[html-techs-tf] Minutes for HTML Techniques Task Force Meeting Sept 17 2012

From: Joshue O Connor <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 18:02:58 +0100
Message-ID: <505757C2.5040405@cfit.ie>
To: "w3c-wai-pf@w3.org PF" <w3c-wai-pf@w3.org>
CC: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Hi y'all,

Here are the minutes of todays meeting. Thanks to Detlev for scribing. [1]

Apologies for any omissions, errors etc.

Cheers

Josh

[1] http://www.w3.org/2012/09/17-html-techs-tf-minutes.html

- DRAFT -

HTML Techniques TF

17 Sep 2012

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Joshue, +49.403.17.aaaa, James_Nurthen, Detlev, Loretta, Marc_Johlic
Regrets
Chair
Joshue
Scribe
Detlev
Contents

Topics
*Discussion on approach for developing technique for valuemin and 
valuemax for 3.3.1 and 3.3.3.
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/aria_10_9_2012/
*Discussion on approach for developing technique for valuemin and 
valuemax for 3.3.1 and 3.3.3.
Summary of Action Items
<Joshue108> * https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/aria_10_9_2012/
<Joshue108> *Discussion on approach for developing technique for 
valuemin and valuemax for 3.3.1 and 3.3.3.
<scribe> scribenick: Detlev
*Discussion on approach for developing technique for valuemin and 
valuemax for 3.3.1 and 3.3.3.

<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/aria_10_9_2012/results
Mark: has comments on techniques proposed (looking)
... We should have siple examples that don"t get buried under scripting
james: Some examples can do without DOM scripting
Loretta: agrees
<jamesn> 
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_WAI-ARIA_range_attributes_for_range_widgets_such_as_progressbar,_scrollbar,_slider,_and_spinbutton
Discussing range techniques (Loretta)
Josh: Does show real-word implementation
Loretta: suggests the existing example but add a simpler one as well
... struggeld to make it fit into error handling
Josh: how does this example fit into error handling?
Loretta: Let the browser provide error handling (above or below min and max)
James: the browser won"t do anything with the aria values...
... AT can support handing of input
... thinks it better fits into Labels & instructions 3.3.2
<jamesn> 
http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20120103/minimize-error-suggestions.html
<Joshue108> 
http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/minimize-error-suggestions.html
<Joshue108> SNAP
Josh: input errors creating automatic errorsuggestions..?
james: the widgets wold need scripting to provide that
Marc: does it need scripting to us min and max value?
James: the screenreader would not automatically reject input outside the 
range
Josh: we should try to minimise scripting in examples where possilbe
Marc: scrioting in range example shows to dynamically add min and max 
and current values but it isn't doing any error checking
James: in the exisitng openajax examples it is impossilbe to enter an 
incorrect value
Loretta: falls into error prevention category
things in the descriotion would need more scripting to be implemented - 
begs the question where the resource is to implement that
that was Josh
LOretta: does anyone know code we could referrence?
Josh: check current value should be role of the assistive technology
James: explains what values do in assistive technoogy (too much too 
quick to write down)...
<Joshue108> http://hanshillen.github.com/jqtest/#goto_slider
Josh: discusses Hans hillen example
Loretta: add as resouce
James page up and page down the wrong way round?..
Lorett: do we need to add error checking code?
Loratta: or should it be a separate technique?
Josh: Separate tech, but connected
... will need to be taken up by AT to become useful
... JAWS support doc doesn't even mention min/max
<jamesn> http://files.freedomscientific.com/beta/JAWS/StartM/ARIA_JAWS14.htm
Josh: that may have changed with JAWS 14 (better ARIA support)
James: runs JAWS 13 on Loretta's page...
... have to start Firefox after JAWs otherwise it doesn't do anything
... didn't read the min and max
(that was JAWS)
Josh: everything by Hans is all scripted it is not yet picked up by 
screen readers
Loretta: maybe add note that scripting needs to be provided to make it work
Josh: its quite complex - may be put it in the pile and wait for better 
support?
... may be other better supported examples?
Loretta: the question about the scripting for error checking to make the 
example work remains, orthogonal
... alert example..
Josh: error message in the message (HTML 5)? light scripting...?
Loretta: merge with other example?
James: points out there is zero support...?
... trying screen reader again to check output
JAWS - "progress bar value in dollars etc ... James no support on VoiceOver
Josh: openajax discussing role: application cursor problem..
Slider shouldn"t be used with role:application
James: you don"t need to goes automatically into forms mode when it 
encounters such items
Josh: not sure if examples in aria value-min / valuemax are suitable
<Joshue108> http://oaa-accessibility.org/example/32/
James: these examples probab;y can"t be a sufficient technique yet 
because they are nit sufficiently AT supported
... no luck in NVDA, JAWS and VO
Loretta: lets add what we have learned to User Agent Notes, lets take 
that to the WG as a general issue
<Joshue108> +1 to Loretta
James: it is often split, some parts might have enough AT support others not
Loretta: well need a generic discussion
Josh will work on the technique
Josh: add note on use of role: application?
... will add note
Loretta: Can contribute to ARIA technology note, independent of any 
technique
<Joshue108> ACTION: Josh to start work on ARIA notes doc [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2012/09/17-html-techs-tf-minutes.html#action01]
Bby: gotas gottas gottas
Marc: question - was reading in the background - ATs are the ones 
expected to do the calc for valuenow based on value min and max - correct?
Value text should be used if vlauemin and max are not known
Josh: not sure - not known if AT can do something like that without use 
of scripting
the are just placeholders for author-specified values which scripting 
can that use
James: has heard of that percentage calculation
Josh: what context?
james: a value was calculated based on valuue min and max, give out 
percentage complete
Aside: sory some of the tech parts might be incorrect, not be familiar 
enough with this stuff...
Josh: discussing TPAC participants
James, Loretta not present then
Small TPAC Meeting Thu 1 November
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/aria_10_9_2012/

Josh next action items
*Discussion on approach for developing technique for valuemin and 
valuemax for 3.3.1 and 3.3.3.

<Joshue108> Detlev: I am working on updating some techniques.
Josh will do 'sping cleaning', to-do-list
Loretta: is there progrss on active-descendant technique
Josh: will enquire
<Joshue108> Josh: I'll ping Adam to check on his progress
Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Josh to start work on ARIA notes doc [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2012/09/17-html-techs-tf-minutes.html#action01]

[End of minutes]
Received on Monday, 17 September 2012 17:03:35 GMT

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