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Re: AW: Objection to the deletion of F69

From: Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de>
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 09:37:06 +0100
Message-ID: <20111112093706.15104ohdrxxluxwy@webmail.dias.de>
Cc: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Note the quotation marks around 'works': what I mean it that the  
example works as intended in the context of F69, namely, to show a  
text clipping failure when the container size is set in percent (i.e.  
relative to viewport dimensions).

Text gets clipped by page zoom (as intended in the failure)
* in Win 7 under Explorer 9 and Firefox 7.0.1
* in Mac OS X (10.5.8) with Safari 5.0.6 and Firefox 3.6.20,
* also (can't check that right now) on Windows XP in Firefox 5 or 6.

My point was that the new failure is valid so I don"t see a reason to  
drop F69.

I hope this helps.

Detlev

Quoting Kerstin Probiesch <k.probiesch@googlemail.com>:

> Hi Detlev,
>
> would you please write in which browsers (incl. version numbers) you  
> have tested the new example for F69 and found it 'working'?
>
>
> Best
>
> Kerstin
>
>
>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: Detlev Fischer [mailto:fischer@dias.de]
>> Gesendet: Freitag, 11. November 2011 17:48
>> An: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
>> Betreff: Objection to the deletion of F69
>>
>> Hi WCAG WG,
>>
>> I learned that after James Nurthen had devised a technique that shows
>> failure of content to scale under page zoom, the discussion has now
>> concluded that F69 should be simply dropped.
>>
>>  From an evaluation standpoint, the failures are of critical
>> importance since they do not come with the usual disclaimer that
>> "failure to conform does not mean that the SC is not met"  - a
>> statement that we find under nearly (?) all tests in techniques,
>> making them difficult to use in a conclusive evaluation procedure.
>>
>> So I propose to think twice before deleting failures that provide at
>> least *some* measure of assessing conformance to success criteria. I
>> can find no argument why the proposed new example for F69
>> http://jnurthen.users.sonic.net/resize.html
>>
>> ..is unsuitable to demonstrate a failure of supporting page zoom.  It
>> 'works' in several browsers that I tried it in.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Detlev
>>
>> Quoting Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org>:
>>
>> > Minutes of the 10 November 2011 WCAG meeting are posted to
>> > http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-wai-wcag-minutes.html and copied below.
>> >
>> >
>> >   Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
>> >
>> >
>> >     10 Nov 2011
>> >
>> > See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-wai-wcag-irc>
>> >
>> >
>> >     Attendees
>> >
>> > Present
>> >     Katie_Haritos-Shea, Bruce_Bailey, Michael_Cooper, Adam_Solomon,
>> >     Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Marc_Johlic, jongund,
>> >     James_Nurthen, Gregg_Vanderheiden
>> > Regrets
>> > Chair
>> >     Loretta_Guarino_Reid
>> > Scribe
>> >     AWK
>> >
>> >
>> >     Contents
>> >
>> >     * Topics <http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-wai-wcag-
>> minutes.html#agenda>
>> >          1. 1. Issue LC-2513: Conflict between alternative options 1-
>> 4
>> >             and F69
>> >             <http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-wai-wcag-
>> minutes.html#item01>
>> >          2. Data table requirements
>> >             <http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-wai-wcag-
>> minutes.html#item02>
>> >     * Summary of Action Items
>> >       <http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-wai-wcag-
>> minutes.html#ActionSummary>
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---
>> >
>> > <trackbot> Date: 10 November 2011
>> >
>> > <MichaelC> Website Accessibility Evaluation Methodology
>> > <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/methodology/>
>> >
>> >
>> >       1. Issue LC-2513: Conflict between alternative options 1-4 and
>> F69
>> >
>> > <MichaelC> scribe: AWK
>> >
>> > <adam> i am working on my mic - cant hear in the meantime
>> >
>> > <scribe> *ACTION:* jamesn to write new technique for 1.4.4 failure
>> for
>> > CSS related to failure related to zoom. [recorded in
>> > http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]
>> >
>> > <trackbot> Created ACTION-166 - Write new technique for 1.4.4 failure
>> > for CSS related to failure related to zoom. [on James Nurthen - due
>> > 2011-11-17].
>> >
>> > *RESOLUTION: delete F69 and revise response to 2513 to reflect that
>> > decision.*
>> >
>> >
>> >       Data table requirements
>> >
>> > <Loretta> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20111110misc/results
>> >
>> > <Loretta> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20101014/H51
>> >
>> > *RESOLUTION: Discussion of three table questions with Jon G resulted
>> in
>> > his understanding how the WG interprets WCAG and tables in 1.3.1*
>> >
>> >
>> >     Summary of Action Items
>> >
>> > *[NEW]* *ACTION:* jamesn to write new technique for 1.4.4 failure for
>> > CSS related to failure related to zoom. [recorded in
>> > http://www.w3.org/2011/11/10-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]
>> >
>> > [End of minutes]
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---
>> > Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl
>> > <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm>
>> > version 1.136 (CVS log <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>)
>> > $Date: 2011/11/10 23:06:45 $
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Michael Cooper
>> > Web Accessibility Specialist
>> > World Wide Web Consortium, Web Accessibility Initiative
>> > E-mail cooper@w3.org <mailto:cooper@w3.org>
>> > Information Page <http://www.w3.org/People/cooper/>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> Detlev Fischer PhD
>> DIAS GmbH - Daten, Informationssysteme und Analysen im Sozialen
>> Geschäftsführung: Thomas Lilienthal, Michael Zapp
>>
>> Telefon: +49-40-43 18 75-25
>> Mobile: +49-157 7-170 73 84
>> Fax: +49-40-43 18 75-19
>> E-Mail: fischer@dias.de
>>
>> Anschrift: Schulterblatt 36, D-20357 Hamburg
>> Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 58 167
>> Geschäftsführer: Thomas Lilienthal, Michael Zapp
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>



--
---------------------------------------------------------------
Detlev Fischer PhD
DIAS GmbH - Daten, Informationssysteme und Analysen im Sozialen
Geschäftsführung: Thomas Lilienthal, Michael Zapp

Telefon: +49-40-43 18 75-25
Mobile: +49-157 7-170 73 84
Fax: +49-40-43 18 75-19
E-Mail: fischer@dias.de

Anschrift: Schulterblatt 36, D-20357 Hamburg
Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 58 167
Geschäftsführer: Thomas Lilienthal, Michael Zapp
---------------------------------------------------------------
Received on Saturday, 12 November 2011 08:37:30 GMT

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