W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-gl@w3.org > January to March 2007

RE: Report on WCAG2 comments relating to cognitive, learning, and language disabilities

From: Sean Hayes <Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 13:12:57 +0000
To: lisa <lisa@ubaccess.com>, "'Slatin, John M'" <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>, 'Hiroshi Kawamura' <hkawa@rehab.go.jp>, 'Hiroshi Kawamura' <hiroshi@kawamura.name>, 'Loretta Guarino Reid' <lorettaguarino@google.com>, 'Jonathan Chetwynd' <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com>, 'Sofia Celic' <Sofia.Celic@visionaustralia.org>, 'Jan Dekelver' <jan.dekelver@khk.be>, 'Chuck Hitchcock' <chitchcock@cast.org>, 'Gez Lemon' <gez.lemon@gmail.com>, 'Clayton Lewis' <clayton.lewis@colorado.edu>, 'Gian Sampson-Wild' <gian@tkh.com.au>, 'Keith Smith' <k.smith@bild.org.uk>, 'Roberto Scano' <rscano@iwa-italy.org>, 'Stephen Shore' <Tumbalaika@aol.com>, 'Nancy Ward' <nward@thedesk.info>, 'Paul Bowman' <pbowman@gmu.edu>, 'John Slatin' <jslatin@mail.utexas.edu>, 'Elbert Johns' <ejohns@thearclink.org>
CC: 'Gregg Vanderheiden' <gv@trace.wisc.edu>, 'Michael Cooper' <cooper@w3.org>, 'Judy Brewer' <jbrewer@w3.org>, 'Loretta Guarino Reid' <lorettaguarino@google.com>, 'WCAG' <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-ID: <7261AC2A5F73904CA41773C8F00813FF1C6D984B@EA-EXMSG-C309.europe.corp.microsoft.com>

No, that's just a different point. The discussion was about disaster warning - which needs an immediate reflex response. An iconic representation for imminent disaster can (and in fact must) be in multiple modalities simultaneously and needs to be pre-learned in order to be a reflex.

Your point about using iconic systems is valid and useful, most of us use such systems every day - for example the international driving symbols. To be fluent in their use you also need to pre-learn them of course, and pictorial or rebus type systems definitely have their uses, both mainstream and as accessibility aids.

The question is whether or how we should account for them in WCAG.

Bliss is interesting, and there are other symbolic representations, for example of manual signing; the problem I have with these kinds of systems, is whether they are truly languages. If they are, then using them really comes under usability rather than accessibility - we don't talk about providing Hindi as an accessibility issue for example, however the Hindi speaking population of the UK is larger than the Deaf one, and it's a similar kind of problem if you only speak or read a minority language within a wider culture.

If on the other hand there are some well defined uses of these kinds of symbols (such as fire EXIT), that would really make a difference, and which can be readily written up as specific techniques, then I think we should consider the use of such symbols as either primary, secondary or alternate modalities.

It at least deserves a discussion.

Sean.

-----Original Message-----
From: lisa [mailto:lisa@ubaccess.com]
Sent: 15 March 2007 08:56
To: 'Slatin, John M'; Sean Hayes; 'Hiroshi Kawamura'; 'Hiroshi Kawamura'; 'Loretta Guarino Reid'; 'Jonathan Chetwynd'; 'Sofia Celic'; 'Jan Dekelver'; 'Chuck Hitchcock'; 'Gez Lemon'; 'Clayton Lewis'; 'Gian Sampson-Wild'; 'Keith Smith'; 'Roberto Scano'; 'Stephen Shore'; 'Nancy Ward'; 'Paul Bowman'; 'John Slatin'; 'Elbert Johns'
Cc: 'Gregg Vanderheiden'; 'Michael Cooper'; 'Judy Brewer'; 'Loretta Guarino Reid'; 'WCAG'
Subject: RE: Report on WCAG2 comments relating to cognitive, learning, and language disabilities



>I agree with Sean's point about prior need for understanding of iconic
representations.

I think a huge fundamental point is being missed

thousands of people who have extremely limited vocabulary of traditional
word can manage 1000's of symbol combinations.
Universal symbolic languages exists and are in use (such as BLISS)

so the whole "prior need for understanding of iconic representations" is
already taken care of for many many people.


Lisa




-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Hayes [mailto:Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 3:26 AM
To: Hiroshi Kawamura; Hiroshi Kawamura; Loretta Guarino Reid; Jonathan
Chetwynd; Sofia Celic; Jan Dekelver; Chuck Hitchcock; Gez Lemon; Clayton
Lewis; Gian Sampson-Wild; Keith Smith; Roberto Scano; Lisa Seeman; Stephen
Shore; Nancy Ward; Paul Bowman; John Slatin; Elbert Johns
Cc: Gregg Vanderheiden; Michael Cooper; Judy Brewer; Loretta Guarino Reid;
WCAG
Subject: RE: Report on WCAG2 comments relating to cognitive, learning, and
language disabilities


This kind of messaging requires pre-awareness training, so that an
iconic representation will suffice when the emergency occurs.

Exit signs in buildings, air-raid sirens, police sirens etc. are all
instances of this. It's no good trying to work out what the message
means when you receive it - the response has to be Pavlovian and
immediate.


Sean Hayes
Standards and Policy Team
Accessible Technology Group
Microsoft
Phone:
  mob +44 7977 455002
  office +44 117 9719730

-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Hiroshi Kawamura
Sent: 14 March 2007 00:01
To: Hiroshi Kawamura; Loretta Guarino Reid; Jonathan Chetwynd; Sofia
Celic; Jan Dekelver; Chuck Hitchcock; Gez Lemon; Clayton Lewis; Gian
Sampson-Wild; Keith Smith; Roberto Scano; Lisa Seeman; Stephen Shore;
Nancy Ward; Paul Bowman; John Slatin; Elbert Johns
Cc: Gregg Vanderheiden; Michael Cooper; Judy Brewer; Loretta Guarino
Reid; WCAG
Subject: Re: Report on WCAG2 comments relating to cognitive, learning,
and language disabilities


Dear all:

This is to supplement my contribution on "disaster use case".

When it comes to web-based early Tsunami warning or other disaster
warning system, accessibility and comprehension is crucial to protect
the lives of readers of the web contents. Just think about it is
streamed video contents with potentially dangerous area maps which is
not legible with tiny mobile phone screen. Everybody requires either
nonvisual alternatives or simplified graphics which is legible even on
the small screen that is associated by exact language for instruction to
the audiences in dangerous areas. The language part need to be as clear
as possible, e. g. YOU MUST EVACUATE TO A PLACE HIGHER THAN 20 METERS
FROM THE SEA LEVEL NOW! The sentence in capital letters above need to be
understood clearly and immediately. A "power card" type web contents
with synchronized audio and simple graphics will help everybody
including persons with cognitive disabilities, in this use case, need to
be accommodated by alternative graphical expression including symbols
such as "emergency exit" or "tsunami evacuation route". This is
applicable for Hurricane and other disasters, and of course cruicial for
survival of individuals with disabilities including cognitive
disabilities as well as people with different language and culture.

Best

Hiroshi

----- Original Message -----
From: "Loretta Guarino Reid" <lorettaguarino@google.com>
To: "Jonathan Chetwynd" <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com>; "Sofia Celic"
<Sofia.Celic@visionaustralia.org>; "Jan Dekelver" <jan.dekelver@khk.be>;
"Chuck Hitchcock" <chitchcock@cast.org>; "Hiroshi Kawamura"
<hkawa@rehab.go.jp>; "Gez Lemon" <gez.lemon@gmail.com>; "Clayton Lewis"
<clayton.lewis@colorado.edu>; "Gian Sampson-Wild" <gian@tkh.com.au>;
"Keith Smith" <k.smith@bild.org.uk>; "Roberto Scano"
<rscano@iwa-italy.org>; "Lisa Seeman" <lisa@ubaccess.com>; "Stephen
Shore" <Tumbalaika@aol.com>; "Nancy Ward" <nward@thedesk.info>; "Paul
Bowman" <pbowman@gmu.edu>; "John Slatin" <jslatin@mail.utexas.edu>;
"Elbert Johns" <ejohns@thearclink.org>
Cc: "Gregg Vanderheiden" <gv@trace.wisc.edu>; "Michael Cooper"
<cooper@w3.org>; "Judy Brewer" <jbrewer@w3.org>; "Loretta Guarino Reid"
<lorettaguarino@google.com>; "WCAG" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 12:47 AM
Subject: Report on WCAG2 comments relating to cognitive, learning, and
language disabilities


> The attachment to this email contains a report on the proposed
> responses to the comments received relating to cognitive, learning,
> and language disabilities. We will be discussing these at our meeting
> on Tuesday, March 13. Details on the meeting logistics will be sent in

> a separate message.
>
> Thanks,
> Loretta
>
Received on Thursday, 15 March 2007 13:14:52 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Monday, 7 December 2009 10:47:49 GMT