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RE: Report on WCAG2 comments relating to cognitive, learning, and language disabilities

From: David MacDonald <befree@magma.ca>
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 10:23:20 -0400
To: "'lisa'" <lisa@ubaccess.com>, "'\"~:'' ????????????\"'" <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com>
Cc: "'Loretta Guarino Reid'" <lorettaguarino@google.com>, "'Sofia Celic'" <Sofia.Celic@visionaustralia.org>, "'Jan Dekelver'" <jan.dekelver@khk.be>, "'Chuck Hitchcock'" <chitchcock@cast.org>, "'Hiroshi Kawamura'" <hkawa@rehab.go.jp>, "'Gez Lemon'" <gez.lemon@gmail.com>, "'Clayton Lewis'" <clayton.lewis@colorado.edu>, "'Gian Sampson-Wild'" <gian@tkh.com.au>, "'Keith Smith'" <k.smith@bild.org.uk>, "'Roberto Scano'" <rscano@iwa-italy.org>, "'Stephen Shore'" <Tumbalaika@aol.com>, "'Nancy Ward'" <nward@thedesk.info>, "'Paul Bowman'" <pbowman@gmu.edu>, "'John Slatin'" <jslatin@mail.utexas.edu>, "'Elbert Johns'" <ejohns@thearclink.org>, "'Gregg Vanderheiden'" <gv@trace.wisc.edu>, "'Michael Cooper'" <cooper@w3.org>, "'Judy Brewer'" <jbrewer@w3.org>, "'WCAG'" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-ID: <002b01c7657b$28ba28a0$7a2e79e0$@ca>

Hi Lisa

Can you provide a link to a successfully implemented concept map on a
commercial (or private site)? I would like to see one in use. Thanks.


>>>how about the wording
- write  clearly and simply
- or provide clear and simple text

I'm not sure that the word "clear" and the word "simple" are always
compatible.

Saying that the surgeon must remove 1/4" from the Medial epicondyle is not
very simple but it is very clear. If they said remove 1/4" from the elbow
bone it could result in disaster because the surgeon would be unclear about
whether it meant the medial or lateral side of the elbow.

Can you help us figure out how we could allow a medical, engineering, or
legal web sites to conform if we require simplicity in all cases?

Accuracy (Clarity) and simplicity are often at odds with each other. Legal
language is very specific because the concepts are very granular.

Eskimos have 50 different kinds of snow. Should they be forced to say "snow"
because someone who is not familiar with their terminology might not
understand?

How can we overcome this?

Thanks
David

access empowers people...
        ...barriers disable them...

www.eramp.com

-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf
Of lisa
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 6:02 AM
To: '"~:'' ????????????"'
Cc: 'Loretta Guarino Reid'; 'Sofia Celic'; 'Jan Dekelver'; 'Chuck
Hitchcock'; 'Hiroshi Kawamura'; 'Gez Lemon'; 'Clayton Lewis'; 'Gian
Sampson-Wild'; 'Keith Smith'; 'Roberto Scano'; 'Stephen Shore'; 'Nancy
Ward'; 'Paul Bowman'; 'John Slatin'; 'Elbert Johns'; 'Gregg Vanderheiden';
'Michael Cooper'; 'Judy Brewer'; 'WCAG'
Subject: RE: Report on WCAG2 comments relating to cognitive, learning, and
language disabilities



Hi Jonathan

I took the wording for WCAG from http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/
  which is titled Editor's Draft February/March 2007

I could not find the wording used in Loretta's email just reference to the
fact that it has been changed and there was a call for more research which
worried me.

All the best
Lisa



-----Original Message-----
From: "~:'' ありがとうございました。" [mailto:j.chetwynd@btinternet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 10:35 AM
To: lisa
Cc: 'Loretta Guarino Reid'; 'Sofia Celic'; 'Jan Dekelver'; 'Chuck
Hitchcock'; 'Hiroshi Kawamura'; 'Gez Lemon'; 'Clayton Lewis'; 'Gian
Sampson-Wild'; 'Keith Smith'; 'Roberto Scano'; 'Stephen Shore'; 'Nancy
Ward'; 'Paul Bowman'; 'John Slatin'; 'Elbert Johns'; 'Gregg Vanderheiden';
'Michael Cooper'; 'Judy Brewer'; 'WCAG'
Subject: Re: Report on WCAG2 comments relating to cognitive, learning, and
language disabilities

Lisa,

not sure where your wording comes from, it is not the wording agreed during
the recent conference call.

regards

Jonathan Chetwynd



On 13 Mar 2007, at 07:59, lisa wrote:

A few clear and important problems with these resolutions

the new improved wording seas:
"Abstract: Following these guidelines will make content accessible to a
wider range of people with disabilities, including blindness and low vision,
deafness and hearing loss, learning difficulties, cognitive limitations,
limited movement, speech difficulties, photosensitivity and combinations of
these."

and

"introduction: Although some of the accessibility issues of people with
cognitive, language, and learning disabilities are addressed by WCAG 2.0,
either directly or through assistive technologies, the WCAG 2.0 guidelines
do not address many areas of need for people with these disabilities. There
is a need for more research and development in this important area."

I have a very strong objections to this wording.

I believe it is designed to mislead

It makes it appear that following WCAG enables the best level of
accessibility for people with cognitive disabilities to date, and until
further research is done this is the best that you can do for these
communities.

" to call out the need for more research in this area"  this has very
little to do with WCAG.   Many proven techniques have been found by
the team  are not reported in WCAG. Also  and there is more research in this
area then for blind access for example.

I see the call for more research  as a "red hearing" or something to divert
attention from the real problem.

(such as use of concept mapping which definitely without question makes
content accessible to people who can not access it otherwise)

Further, many of the techniques used by other guidelines are still not in
WCAG

Take a look at some of my reports on other standards and how they support
access for learning disabilities that was sent to WCAG  in
2001 !

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/W3C-wai-gl/2001OctDec/0455.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/W3C-wai-gl/2001OctDec/0456.html

We still have not got to this level. (From 2001 folks - we still did not get
them in in 2007)

What about the problems we had within the WCAG working group itself, were
use of long numbers and codes made issues impossible to track without a good
short term memory.

WCAG eventually improved the process (Thanks Loretta) but these problems
are not considered issues in WCAG 2 - even though the group themselves
experienced the affect of reliance of short term memory being an unnecessary
barrier to participation.

Giving the impression that we are doing all that is possible today is
incorrect.

I propose  that  the words " There is a need for more research and
development in this important area." be dropped from the introduction. Then
people will be aware that WCAG is not the best place to look for this.

Issue  two:

Putting things in advisory techniques, s a good idea, but this concept needs
to be worked out

a, the term "advisory" suggests that it is less important then required
success criteria techniques. I suggest changing the name to "non testable
techniques"

b, the techniques included seem "add hock" or what ever seems a good idea at
the time. I suggest we make a tougher roadmap about building up these
techniques so that we are properly covering\

c, Even if they are hard to test, an author should be a ble to make a
conformance statement if they fulfil them. If nothing else this enables
people to locate  pages that they may be able to use.

Issue three

looking at the text:

Using the clearest and simplest language appropriate for the content.

- we were stuck with this one last time round. The word appropriate
is a blanket loophole for people to say they have done this without doing a
thing.
how about the wording

write  clearly and simply
or provide clear and simple text
From: Loretta Guarino Reid [mailto:lorettaguarino@google.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 5:48 PM
To: Jonathan Chetwynd; Sofia Celic; Jan Dekelver; Chuck Hitchcock; Hiroshi
Kawamura; Gez Lemon; Clayton Lewis; Gian Sampson-Wild; Keith Smith; Roberto
Scano; Lisa Seeman; Stephen Shore; Nancy Ward; Paul Bowman; John Slatin;
Elbert Johns
Cc: Gregg Vanderheiden; Michael Cooper; Judy Brewer; Loretta Guarino Reid;
WCAG
Subject: Report on WCAG2 comments relating to cognitive, learning, and
language disabilities

The attachment to this email contains a report on the proposed responses to
the comments received relating to cognitive, learning, and language
disabilities. We will be discussing these at our meeting on Tuesday, March
13. Details on the meeting logistics will be sent in a separate message.

Thanks,
Loretta



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Received on Tuesday, 13 March 2007 14:26:01 GMT

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