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Re: Is it a problem that WCAG 2.0 doesn't require paying attention to NOFRAME content?

From: Christophe Strobbe <christophe.strobbe@esat.kuleuven.be>
Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2006 17:27:03 +0200
Message-Id: <>
To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org

Hi Johannes, All,

Bruce Bailey wrote:
Okay, so I am poorly paraphrasing what we have in Appendix D:
because the longdesc attribute type on the frame element type has not been 
supported and is not defined in XHTML 1.1, the Working Draft of XFrames, or 
the Working Draft of XHTML 2.0)

Johannes Koch wrote:
To Appendix D authors:
XHTML 1.1 does not contain the frame/frameset/iframe elements, because it 
is basically a modularized version of XHTML 1.0 Strict. Neither does XHTML 
2.0 contain anything frames-related. And the XFrames WD was not updated 
since 2002.

The Appendix D authors were and are aware of this.
They also knew/know that the last Working Draft of XFrames dates from 12 
October 2005 (http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-xframes-20051012/), not 2002.

<blockquote cite="Johannes">
I would not use this to argue against a requirement to use longdesc for 

If longdesc in HTML 4.x and XHTML 1.0 is not supported (which is what the 
first part of the note quoted by Bruce says), even eight years after the 
original publication of HTML 4 (24 April 1998), then that attribute cannot 
be a sufficient technique for WCAG 2.0.

<blockquote cite="Johannes">
If there is a need for describing the purpose of frames and their 
relationship, there should be a way to do this
a) in markup languages that know the frames concept, and
b) with user agents that don't implement frame/@longdesc?
If there is no need (any more), please clarify why.

Some arguments I've come across:
1. Frame already has the title attribute, which one can use if the name 
attribute does not suffice (the name attribute does not allow spaces, so 
you can write "TopNav" but not "Top Navigation").
2. Is there a real benefit in a detailed description of a frame or a 
frameset? (Implied answer: no.)



Christophe Strobbe
K.U.Leuven - Departement of Electrical Engineering - Research Group on 
Document Architectures
Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 - 3001 Leuven-Heverlee - BELGIUM
tel: +32 16 32 85 51

Disclaimer: http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm
Received on Monday, 7 August 2006 15:27:12 UTC

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