W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-wai-gl@w3.org > January to March 2006

RE: CONTENT

From: Gregg Vanderheiden <gv@trace.wisc.edu>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:05:37 -0600
To: "'John M Slatin'" <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>, <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-ID: <009701c642f4$0cc02410$ee8cfea9@NC6000BAK>
I like this - but then what do we mean by Information and structure are
separable from presentation.

 

If it is all information.. 

 


Gregg

 -- ------------------------------ 
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. 
Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
Director - Trace R & D Center 
University of Wisconsin-Madison 
The Player for my DSS sound file is at http://tinyurl.com/dho6b
<http://tinyurl.com/cmfd9>  

 

 


  _____  


From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf
Of John M Slatin
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 12:54 PM
To: Gregg Vanderheiden; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: RE: CONTENT

More thinking aloud.

 

Content is everything in a Web page or other primary resource, including all
resources specified in the code for that Web page  or other primary resource

 

I think this avoids the trap of saying that content that  is purely
decorative isn't content (which would then mean we couldn't write success
criteria about it). That purely decorative stuff is "Web content" whether
the user finds it "informative" or not.

 

And purely decorative content is "information," too. A while back someone
(Giorgio Brajnic I think) proposed that our definition of "information"
should include Gregory Bateson's definition of information as "news of
difference-- the difference that makes a difference." I'm not sure he was
serious, but the point is. 

 

If we think about "information" from the way the term is used in phrases
like "Information Technology" (US) or "Information and Communications
Technology) (Europe and elsewhere), *everything* that comes over the network
is information-- some string of zeroes and ones that allows each character
or pixel or whatever to be distinguished from all the other characters or
pixels or whatever that come with it. At this level of abstraction, purely
decorative graphics are information. The empty alt attribute furnishes
*additional* information, meaningful only to AT, that enables screen readers
to distinguish these purely decorative images from other images, so that the
AT can act accordingly. In Bateson's terms, that empty alt attribute is
"news of difference" with respect to that particular <img> element. The src
attribute of the <img> element specifies a file containing a whole bunch of
information-- zeroes and ones again.

 

"Good design is accessible design."

Dr. John M. Slatin, Director 
Accessibility Institute
University of Texas at Austin 
FAC 248C 
1 University Station G9600 
Austin, TX 78712 
ph 512-495-4288, fax 512-495-4524 
email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu 
Web  <http://www.ital.utexas.edu/> http://www.utexas.edu
<http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility> /research/accessibility 

-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf
Of Gregg Vanderheiden
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 10:33 AM
To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: CONTENT

Here is a definition of content from an ISO standard draft

 

3.2

content

information to be communicated to the user by means of a Web application
that is presented by text, images, video or other types of media

 

 

We had said earlier that content was more than just the information - that
it was the presentation too.  But I wonder...   

 

The questions seem to be

-          If there is no information is it content?

-          Are pure sensory experiences content?

-          Are sensory experience and other non-informative parts of web
pages content.

-          If they are not content - could we still talk about them in our
guidelines on content

o        I think we could - because we are differentiating them from
content.

o        We also don't require text alternatives for things that contain no
information or meaning so...

-          Are web applications the only way to convey this information?
Is this the wrong use of that term?

o        Should this be user agents?

-          Should it be limited to media? 

 

 

Maybe content is

 

 

3.2

content

information to be communicated to the user by means of a user agent that is
presented by structure, layout, text, images, video, scripts or other
components. 

  

Just thinking aloud and looking for harmonization. 

 

 

 


Gregg

------------------------

Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. 
Professor - Depts of Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
Director - Trace R & D Center 
University of Wisconsin-Madison 
< <http://trace.wisc.edu/> http://trace.wisc.edu/> FAX 608/262-8848  
For a list of our list discussions http://trace.wisc.edu/lists/

The Player for my DSS sound file is at http://tinyurl.com/dho6b 

 <http://trace.wisc.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/>  

 

 
Received on Wednesday, 8 March 2006 21:05:44 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Monday, 7 December 2009 10:47:45 GMT