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RE: Propose deleting failure for 3.2.5

From: Michael Cooper <michaelc@watchfire.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:39:40 -0500
Message-ID: <A0666B3C59F1634290FDC88674D87C32076D2CB8@1WFEMAIL.ottawa.watchfire.com>
To: <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Sorry, I got thrown off by Gregg's comment about timeout. I still do not
support deleting this as a failure technique for the reasons given in my
original message. I get got by unexpected refresh all the time and I
don't even use a screen reader (often). I haven't figured out how to
turn this off in my browser, and not for lack of trying. Admittedly I'm
not the brightest bulb (seeing how easily I got thrown off track) but I
think this means it would be an issue for other users as well. Even if
user agents do have a preference to turn off automatic refresh that
works (without having to turn off all of Javascript, which would take
Javascript out of the baseline), if users don't know how to use it it
doesn't help. We have a number of techniques related to this sort of
situation; auto-submitting combo boxes is the easy example. Going back
to Gregg's thought, yes, maybe this maps to timeout, but it's still a
failure and we need to keep it. Michael

 

________________________________

From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Cynthia Shelly
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 1:44 PM
To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: RE: Propose deleting failure for 3.2.5

 

I'm not proposing deleting the SC, just the common failure technique.

 

________________________________

From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:12 AM
To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: RE: Propose deleting failure for 3.2.5

I'm a bit concerned about making a decision yet. I didn't notice any
responses to questions I raised
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2006JanMar/0440.html. I
could live with deleting the SC if it's true that it's completely
covered by timeout. But not all the techniques that map to 3.2.5
http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=How_to_Meet_Success_Crit
erion_3.2.5 have also been mapped to a timeout SC. Those techniques have
been accepted by the group. If we believe all those techniques can
reasonably be mapped to something under 2.2, then I could see removing
it; otherwise, I think we're being too hasty. I think it's a stretch to
map some of those techniques, so at least for the moment I continue to
believe we should not remove the SC.

 

Michael

 

________________________________

From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Gregg Vanderheiden
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:23 PM
To: 'Cynthia Shelly'; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: RE: Propose deleting failure for 3.2.5

 

OK

 

Seems like timeout would cover it anyway if it were a problem.  

 


Gregg

 -- ------------------------------ 
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. 
Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
Director - Trace R & D Center 
University of Wisconsin-Madison 
The Player for my DSS sound file is at http://tinyurl.com/dho6b
<http://tinyurl.com/cmfd9> 

 

	 

	
________________________________


	From: Cynthia Shelly [mailto:cyns@exchange.microsoft.com] 
	Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 3:22 PM
	To: Gregg Vanderheiden; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
	Subject: RE: Propose deleting failure for 3.2.5

	You could.  But, I haven't seen this much in the real world,
except in response to user action (Iike clicking a button).  As long as
it's in response to user action, I don't think it's an accessibility
problem.  I just don't think it's common enough to qualify as a "common"
failure.  

	 

	
________________________________


	From: Gregg Vanderheiden [mailto:gv@trace.wisc.edu] 
	Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:06 PM
	To: Cynthia Shelly; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
	Subject: RE: Propose deleting failure for 3.2.5

	Couldn't you do it in script?  Or Flash?  Or Director?
Applets?  

	 

	
	Gregg
	
	 -- ------------------------------ 
	Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. 
	Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
	Director - Trace R & D Center 
	University of Wisconsin-Madison 
	The Player for my DSS sound file is at http://tinyurl.com/dho6b
<http://tinyurl.com/cmfd9> 

	 

		 

		
________________________________


		From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org
[mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Shelly
		Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 7:05 PM
		To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
		Subject: Propose deleting failure for 3.2.5

		At least for HTML, the only ways I know of to "create a
complete change of main content through an automatic refresh" are to use
meta-refresh or script.  Both can be disabled in browsers.  Are there
other technologies that have these issues?  If so, we could create a
general technique about it.  If not, then I don't think this is a common
failure for HTML, and I propose that we delete it.

		 

	
http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Failure_due_to_complete_
change_of_main_content_through_an_automatic_update_that_the_user_cannot_
disable

		 

		 

		 
Received on Wednesday, 8 March 2006 20:39:57 GMT

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