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RE: Just (almost plain) Web-page*

From: Michael Cooper <michaelc@watchfire.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 12:30:48 -0500
Message-ID: <A0666B3C59F1634290FDC88674D87C32076D2B52@1WFEMAIL.ottawa.watchfire.com>
To: <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
I dunno. I don't know if I have much to add to the substance of the
discussion. But a lot - a lot - of documents around the world quote WCAG
directly, often to provide organization-specific explanatory material
for each checkpoint / success criterion. Would they retain the asterisks
when they do that? They probably would not include the footnote to which
the asterisk refers, and things would look plain weird. I think if
there's a caveat for which we need an asterisk, it should just be
included quotably, so the previous proposal worked better for me.
Michael

 

________________________________

From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Gregg Vanderheiden
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 8:37 AM
To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: Just (almost plain) Web-page*

 

 In working on the SC that have delivery Unit in them to try replacing
with "Web page(including web applications)"  I find that it is just
plain awkward, reads funny and sometimes gives wrong impressions.   

 

For example if you say       

 

3.2.4 Components that have the same functionality within a set of Web
pages (including Web application) are identified consistently.

 

It sounds like you are saying the set of web pages is a web application.


 

 

So I went back and looked at the issue over again.

 

The definition we are using is the DI definition for Web Page.   We
didn't want to call it that because it means more than just a static
page. It means (and is defined as) any primary resource and all the
resources rendered with it.   We differ just a shade from DI in that
they say 'rendered simultaneously" and that perhaps misleading for pages
that have script or are interactive environments.  

 

So how about we use   Web-Page*   

The hyphen and asterisk indicate that there is something about it that
is not just a regular web-page (which we need).  But it does so in a way
that is so much less obtrusive and problematic than anything else we
have been able to come up with.

 

If we do this - the SC in question become:

 

*	2.2.2 Content does not blink for more than 3 seconds, or a
method is available to stop any blinking content within the Web-Page*. 
*	2.4.2 A mechanism is available to bypass blocks of content that
are repeated on multiple Web-Pages*. 
*	2.4.3 More than one way is available to locate content within a
set of Web-Pages* where content is not the result of, or a step in, a
process or task. 
*	2.4.4 Each Web-Page* has a title. 
*	2.4.5 Each programmatic reference to another Web-Page* or to
another location in the same Web-Page* is associated with text
describing the destination. 
*	2.4.7 When a Web-Page* is navigated sequentially, elements
receive focus in an order that follows relationships and sequences in
the content. 
*	2.4.8 Information about the user's location within a set of
Web-Pages* is available. 
*	3.1.1 The primary natural language or languages of the Web-Page*
can be programmatically determined. 
*	3.2.3 Navigational mechanisms that are repeated on multiple
Web-Pages* within a set of Web-Pages* occur in the same relative order
each time they are repeated unless a change is initiated by the user. 
*	3.2.4 Components that have the same functionality within a set
of Web-Pages* are identified consistently. 
*	4.1.1 Each Web-Page* can be parsed unambiguously and the
relationships in the resulting data structure are also unambiguous. 

(the word Each was added to 2.4.4 and 4.1.1 to match other guidelines
and to read better and in was changed to within on 2.2.2)  

 

Gregg

 

 

PS   To get an idea of what these look like if we use one of the other
approaches - here are the others - 

OTHER THINGS TRIED BUT REJECTED... 

*	2.2.2 Content does not blink for more than 3 seconds, or a
method is available to stop any blinking content within the Web page
(including Web application). 
*	2.4.2 A mechanism is available to bypass blocks of content that
are repeated on multiple Web pages (including Web application). 
*	2.4.3 More than one way is available to locate content within a
set of Web pages (including Web application) where content is not the
result of, or a step in, a process or task. 
*	2.4.4 The Web page (including Web application) has a title. 
*	2.4.5 Each programmatic reference to another Web page (including
Web application) or to another location in the same Web page (including
Web applications), is associated with text describing the destination. 
*	2.4.7 When a Web page (including Web application) is navigated
sequentially, elements receive focus in an order that follows
relationships and sequences in the content. 
*	2.4.8 Information about the user's location within a set of Web
pages (including Web application) is available. 
*	3.1.1 The primary natural language or languages of the Web page
(including Web application) can be programmatically determined. 
*	3.2.3 Navigational mechanisms that are repeated on multiple Web
pages (including Web application) within a set of Web pages  (including
Web applications) occur in the same relative order each time they are
repeated unless a change is initiated by the user. 
*	3.2.4 Components that have the same functionality within a set
of Web pages (including Web application) are identified consistently. 
*	4.1.1 The Web page (including Web application) can be parsed
unambiguously and the relationships in the resulting data structure are
also unambiguous. 

Alternate proposal     Web-Page/Application

*	2.2.2 Content does not blink for more than 3 seconds, or a
method is available to stop any blinking content within the
Web-Page/Application. 
*	2.4.2 A mechanism is available to bypass blocks of content that
are repeated on multiple Web-Pages/Applications. 
*	2.4.3 More than one way is available to locate content within a
set of Web-Pages/Applications where content is not the result of, or a
step in, a process or task. 
*	2.4.4 Each Web-Page/Application has a title. 
*	2.4.5 Each programmatic reference to another
Web-Page/Application or to another location in the same
Web-Page/Application is associated with text describing the destination.

*	2.4.7 When a Web-Page/Application is navigated sequentially,
elements receive focus in an order that follows relationships and
sequences in the content. 
*	2.4.8 Information about the user's location within a set of
Web-Pages/Applications is available. 
*	3.1.1 The primary natural language or languages of the
Web-Page/Application can be programmatically determined. 
*	3.2.3 Navigational mechanisms that are repeated on multiple
Web-Pages/Applications within a set of Web-Pages/Applications occur in
the same relative order each time they are repeated unless a change is
initiated by the user. 
*	3.2.4 Components that have the same functionality within a set
of Web-Pages/Applications are identified consistently. 
*	4.1.1 Each Web-Page/Application can be parsed unambiguously and
the relationships in the resulting data structure are also unambiguous.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gregg

 -- ------------------------------ 
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. 
Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
Director - Trace R & D Center 
University of Wisconsin-Madison 
The Player for my DSS sound file is at http://tinyurl.com/dho6b
<http://tinyurl.com/cmfd9> 

 

	 

	
________________________________


	From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org
[mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Gregg Vanderheiden
	Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 3:06 PM
	To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
	Subject: Web Pages (including Web Applications)

	Hi All,

	 

	 We just settled on Web pages (and other primary resources) when
we discovered today that this doesn't work.

	 

	A Web pages is "a primary resource and all of the secondary
resources intended to be rendered together)"

	 

	The phrase  "other primary resources" would have to be extended
to in our definition to 

	"Web pages (and other primary resources with their secondary
resources intended to be rendered together)."

	 

	Clear this doesn't work.  

	 

	Otherwise we are saying something like    "humans and other
Anglo Saxons"   The second part is a subset of the first - not
'another".

	 

	 

	SUGGEST

	 

	We change to 

	Web Pages (including Web Applications)

	 

	This will give us a term with two parts that both make sense

	 

	We went to the Web Applications Working Group site and it says
its scope it 

	Client side applications 

	 

	In our definition of "Web Pages (including Web Applications)" 

	we can make it clear we are talking about Web Apps that are
client side - or the client side of them. 

	 

	
	Gregg
	
	------------------------

	Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. 
	Professor - Depts of Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
	Director - Trace R & D Center 
	University of Wisconsin-Madison 
	<http://trace.wisc.edu/ <http://trace.wisc.edu/> > FAX
608/262-8848  
	For a list of our list discussions http://trace.wisc.edu/lists/

	The Player for my DSS sound file is at http://tinyurl.com/dho6b 

	  <http://trace.wisc.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/> 

	 

	 
Received on Wednesday, 8 March 2006 17:31:02 GMT

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