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RE: REwrite of 1.1.6

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 20:43:44 -0800
Message-ID: <53744A0A1D995C459E975F971E17F56460783D@namail4.corp.adobe.com>
To: "Gregg Vanderheiden" <gv@trace.wisc.edu>, <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
That's just it, you don't lose access to the descriptions at all, you
just get them out of the way a bit.
 
Imagine that you have a lecture series available online.  The professor
does demonsrations that require significant description - the
description must detailed enough that the student can understand what is
going on in a complex visual demo, and may even be long enough to
require extended audio descriptions.  
 
A student wants to review the transcripts to locate a video where the
professor discussed some topic.  This search will be substantially
easier if the long description content is separated from the caption
data, but it is still necessary for the student using the descriptions
to access this information.  So, the descriptions live at the bottom of
the page, or on a different page, and the links to the descriptions are
found inline with the caption-transcript.
 
I'm not recommending that this be the only way to satisfy this
requirement, but that it is as valid as straight intermingling of
captions and descriptions in a transcript and should fit the wording of
1.1.6.
 
Regarding David's comments:
David: This particular example doesn't provide a way back to the inline
link after you jump to the description. That would require a named
anchor at the point of departure (in the captions) and a link back to
the anchor(point of departure) after the description was read. (kind of
like online footnotes)

 

Sure. Easy enough to accomplish in several ways.

 

It's a neat idea and though it might enhance the experience for someone
who wants to ignore the descriptions, it would degrade the experience
for someone who needs both captions and descriptions because they would
continually be jumping back and forth every couple of lines, hitting
keys (or mouse buttons) to follow the links to the descriptions and then
back again to the captions. It would be pretty hard to "get into" the
experience of the script that way. It would be like reading a novel
while continually turning on and off the light.

 

Part of my thinking is that this is particularly useful for
description-users who are accessing the content multiple times (a course
lecture series that is used as a study reference - the student may
remember the description content but want to review what the professor
actually says, and therefore benefits from not needing to hear the
description every time).

 

I also think it would require more effort for a web author to do this
technique than just manually pasting in the descriptions in between the
captions.

 

Perhaps.  If I was going to do this I would generate the files from the
XML data file that contained both the aption and description info.  I'm
not saying that collated text transcripts must be done this way, just
that we shouldn't prohibit it.

 

Having read a ton of movie scripts in my old life, I think dialogue is
easy to read with all the descriptions in between. I think the current
collation idea is better, unless this example was an option to do in
addition to the collated script.

 
What's the longest description you've needed to wade through?  That
might be a factor...
 
AWK
 


________________________________

	From: Gregg Vanderheiden [mailto:gv@trace.wisc.edu] 
	Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:21 PM
	To: Andrew Kirkpatrick; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
	Subject: RE: REwrite of 1.1.6
	
	

	Yes, I see what you are saying.    But I'm not sure what value
having the captions without the description would be?  

	 

	
	Gregg
	
	 -- ------------------------------ 
	Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. 
	Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
	Director - Trace R & D Center 
	University of Wisconsin-Madison 
	The Player for my DSS sound file is at http://tinyurl.com/dho6b
<http://tinyurl.com/cmfd9> 

	 

		 

		
________________________________


		From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org
[mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Kirkpatrick
		Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 5:04 PM
		To: Gregg Vanderheiden; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
		Subject: RE: REwrite of 1.1.6

		Not everyone will want to read the descriptions
intermixed with the captions.  As a result, while it is fine to say that
these different types of information should be mixed together, it may
not create the best experience.  one method that would allow users to
have easy access to the descriptions within a transcript would be to
link to the descriptions (the descriptions could be in the same file, or
even in a separate file) instead of to include the description text
directly.  This way, the user could listen to the description if
desired, and skipped more easily.

		 

		The reason I mentioned this was that your suggested
rewrite to 1.1.6 could potentially make this technique insufficient to
satisfy the requirement, and I want to make sure that this would be
allowed.

		 

		Is that more clear?

		 

		AWK

			 

			
________________________________


			From: Gregg Vanderheiden
[mailto:gv@trace.wisc.edu] 
			Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 1:53 PM
			To: Andrew Kirkpatrick; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
			Subject: RE: REwrite of 1.1.6

			I don't understand this suggestion.

			 

			Gregg
			
			 -- ------------------------------ 
			Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. 
			Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
			Director - Trace R & D Center 
			University of Wisconsin-Madison 
			The Player for my DSS sound file is at
http://tinyurl.com/dho6b <http://tinyurl.com/cmfd9> 

			 

				 

				
________________________________


				From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org
[mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Kirkpatrick
				Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:38 AM
				To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
				Subject: RE: REwrite of 1.1.6

				Gregg,

				Proposed

				 

				 

				1.1.6 For prerecorded multimedia
content, a combined document containing captions
<http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/appendixA.html#captionsdef>  intermixed
with the audio description
<http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/appendixA.html#audiodescdef>
transcripts is available. [How to meet 1.1.6
<http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20060117/Overvi
ew.html#text-equiv-text-doc> ]

				This sounds fine to me, but I think that
we should make sure that we accept the case where a transcript includes
links to audio descriptions interspersed, as an alternative to the
actual description text.    For example:

				 

				Transcript:

				This is the first spoken transcript
text. This is more transcript.  (<a href="#desc1">description 1</a>).
This is more transcript.  Blah blah blah....

				 

				Descriptions:

				<a name="desc1" id="desc1">1. </a>This
is the first description

				 

				This would improve the experience for
many users,and while it is untested, I'd like to make sure that it is
acceptable to use.

				 

				AWK
Received on Saturday, 11 February 2006 04:44:38 GMT

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