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RE: Link Text SC's

From: Jim Thatcher <jim@jimthatcher.com>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 14:44:03 -0500
To: "'Vicente Luque Centeno'" <vlc@it.uc3m.es>
Cc: "'WCAG'" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-ID: <002201c67d0e$edaf7170$0202a8c0@jtcom2400>

I think you are calculating the "programmatically determined" text of a
link. Aren't you addressing 2.4.8? The purpose (text) in the first and third
"Example of SC 2.4.4" is not picked up by your expression. (I think)

Jim
 
Accessibility Consulting: http://jimthatcher.com/
512-306-0931

-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf
Of Vicente Luque Centeno
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 11:03 AM
To: Jim Thatcher
Cc: 'Loretta Guarino Reid'; 'Gregg Vanderheiden'; 'WCAG'
Subject: RE: Link Text SC's


Here is my "formalized" sugestion for calculating the "programmatically 
associated" text of a link

If the link is inside a XPath variable like $a, then its text could be the 
following XPath expression

normalize-space(concat($a/@title,$a//@alt,$a))

In other words, the title attribute of the link (if present) is 
concatenated to any alt attribute of any element inside the link (at any 
depth, if present) and concatenated to the link's text itself. Te result 
should be passed to the normalize-space function in order to normalize 
white spaces. A further step could consist on making this text case 
insensitive, because blind users are case insensitive and "click here" is 
the same than "CLICK HERE" for them.

So, the following Schematron expression formalizes any of 2.4.4 or 2.4.8. 
Can anybody tell me which of 2.4.4 or 2.4.8? :-) It is also unclear to
me to distinguish between 2.4.4 and 2.4.8 without the help of a
formalized expression.

<rule context="a|area">
  <report test="not((//a|//area)[@href != current()/@href and
     normalize-space(concat(@title, .//@alt, .)) =
     normalize-space(
      concat(current()/@title, current()//@alt, current()))])"/>
</rule>

The case-insensitive version is:

<rule context="a|area">
  <report test="not((//a|//area)[@href != current()/@href and
     translate(normalize-space(concat(@title, .//@alt, .)),
      'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz',
      'ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ') =
     translate(normalize-space(
      concat(current()/@title, current()//@alt, current()),
      'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz',
      'ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ'))])"/>
</rule>

Vicente Luque Centeno
Dep. Ingeniera Telemtica
Universidad Carlos III de Madrid
http://www.it.uc3m.es/vlc

On Sat, 20 May 2006, Jim Thatcher wrote:

>> "Read more" following the opening sentences of an article satisfies 2.4.4
> -
>
> There is no way, in my opinion, that the link information in this (rather
> typical) example is "Programmatically associated" with that link. He said
> that having no definition of "Programmatically associated".
>
>
>
> If that is the intention of the SC (which I accept) then the wording must
> change.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> Accessibility Consulting: http://jimthatcher.com/
>
> 512-306-0931
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf
> Of Loretta Guarino Reid
> Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 6:22 PM
> To: jim@jimthatcher.com; 'Gregg Vanderheiden'; WCAG
> Subject: Re: Link Text SC's
>
>
>
> Actually, "Click here" with a good title attribute satisfies both, since
the
> title attribute is explicitly associated with the link (so you could
include
> that information in the link list). However, "Read more" following the
> opening sentences of an article satisfies 2.4.4 but not 2.4.8.
>
>
> On 5/20/06 4:08 PM, "Jim Thatcher" <jim@jimthatcher.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Loretta - I now understand the intended difference - but it sure
> isn't/wasn't clear to me.
>
> "Click here" with a good title attribute is good for 2.4.4 but not 2.4.8.
>
>
> Jim
>
> Accessibility Consulting: http://jimthatcher.com/
> 512-306-0931
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loretta Guarino Reid [mailto:lguarino@adobe.com]
> <mailto:lguarino@adobe.com%5d>
> Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 5:30 PM
> To: jim@jimthatcher.com; 'Gregg Vanderheiden'; WCAG
> Subject: Re: Link Text SC's
>
> Context can be used in interpreting the link in 2.4.4, but not in 2.4.8.
> (See the technique that is sufficient for 2.4.4 but not for 2.4.7:
> Identifying the purpose of a link using link text combined with link
context
> USING a technology-specific technique below (for a technology in your
> baseline))
>
> If 2.4.8 is satisfied, a list of links for a web unit should give a user
> sufficient information to understand the purpose of each link. This may
not
> be true when only 2.4.4 is satisfied, since it may be necessary to
retrieve
> the context of the link to understand its purpose.
>
> Loretta
>
>
> On 5/20/06 3:19 PM, "Jim Thatcher" <jim@jimthatcher.com> wrote:
> In 2.4.4. text (from which its purpose can be determined) has to be
> associated with the link.
> In 2.4.8 the link text has to describe the purpose of the link
>
> Sound similar. So, must ask again, what is the difference?
>
>
> Jim
>
> Accessibility Consulting: http://jimthatcher.com/
> 512-306-0931
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gregg Vanderheiden [mailto:gv@trace.wisc.edu]
> <mailto:gv@trace.wisc.edu%5d>   <mailto:gv@trace.wisc.edu%5d>
> <mailto:gv@trace.wisc.edu%5d>
> Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 4:08 PM
> To: jim@jimthatcher.com; 'WCAG-WG'
> Subject: RE: Link Text SC's
>
>
> In 2.4.4. text has to be associated with the link.   In 2.4.8 the link
text
> has to describe the purpose of the link.
>
>
>
> Gregg
>
> -- ------------------------------
> Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
> Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
> Director - Trace R & D Center
> University of Wisconsin-Madison
> The Player for my DSS sound file is at http://tinyurl.com/dho6b
> <http://tinyurl.com/cmfd9> <http://tinyurl.com/cmfd9>
>
>  _____
>
>
> From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org]
> <mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org%5d>
> <mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org%5d>
<mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org%5d>
> On Behalf Of Jim Thatcher
> Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:33 PM
> To: 'WCAG-WG'
> Subject: Link Text SC's
> Can someone please explain the difference between SC 2.4.4 and SC 2.4.8.
> They seem the same to me. The "How To Meet" text is essentially the same
> (when "programmatically associated" is defined as someone has suggested).
>
>
> Jim
>
> Accessibility Consulting: http://jimthatcher.com/
> 512-306-0931
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Sunday, 21 May 2006 19:44:36 GMT

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