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Re: Issue #1305

From: Chris Ridpath <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:33:07 -0500
Message-ID: <263c01c4e2b2$fe76ef80$e29a968e@WILDDOG>
To: "John M Slatin" <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>, "Joe Clark" <joeclark@joeclark.org>, "WAI-GL" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>

> use the anchor's title attribute to describe the link destination.
> Keep the alt text as a replacement for the image.

> There *is* a user agent problem...
> Current screen readers speak
> *either* the alt attribute *or* the title attribute...
>
We are trying to avoid catering to user agents and it appears to me that our
new requirement would not create a huge problem. Older user agents would get
at least some information and new user agents would have access to both
types of information. Having access to both chunks of text, each with a
different purpose, would be an improvement over what we have now.

John - Is our new requirement something you could live with?

> Also, I would argue strongly against using
> a phrase lke "Go to the" at the beginning of what
> a user might hear as link .
>
This is another issue. What is good link text? We have a test (number 19)
for that and I'll put it on the list for discussion next week:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/tests/test19.html

Here's what the W3C's QA says about link text:
http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/noClickHere

Chris


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John M Slatin" <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>
To: "Chris Ridpath" <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca>; "Joe Clark"
<joeclark@joeclark.org>; "WAI-GL" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 4:23 PM
Subject: RE: Issue #1305


>
> Chris Ridpath wrote:
> <blockquote>
> So use the anchor's title attribute to describe the link destination.
> Keep the alt text as a replacement for the image. This seems to follow
> the spec more closely.
>
> Example:
>
> <a href="home.html" title="go to home page"><img src="house.png"
> alt="drawing of a house"/></a>
>
> Is there a user agent problem with this?
> </blockquote>
> There *is* a user agent problem with the example Chris gives above-- at
> least for current-generation screen readers.  Current screen readers
> speak *either* the alt attribute *or* the title attribute; as yet there
> is no option to have the screen reader speak both. The default setting
> is to speak the alt attribute. So the screen reader user who encountered
> the example above would hear something like "Link graphic  drawing of a
> house" or (for Home Page Reader) "Drawing of a house" in a differen
> voice signalling the presence of a link.
>
> Also, I would argue strongly against using a phrase lke "Go to the" at
> the beginning of what a user might hear as link .  Links lists like
> those provided by JAWS and Home Page Reader, and by at least some
> Firefox extensions, allow users to move through the list by pressing the
> initial letter of the link text.  Thus if I go to a library Web site and
> hope to learn the hourstext when they're open, I would bring up the
> links list and press "h" (especially if I happened to know the page well
> enough to know that such a link was there).  This is a rough
> approximation of point and click.  If all the links in the list begin
> with the same letter (Go to x), then people using links lists will have
> to scroll through all the links to find the one they want.  (If the
> screen reader is set to speak the title attribute, that's the text that
> would show up in the links list.)
>
> The href attribute "describes" the link destination by providing the
> URI.  If the graphic showing a picture of a house is used as a link to
> the home page, the alt text should serve the same purpose as the image
> (Guideline 1.1 L1 SC1) and the alt text should say "Home."  ("Go to the
> home page" is also acceptable by this criterion, but I'd like to
> discourage such wording.)
>
> John
> Chris
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Joe Clark" <joeclark@joeclark.org>
> To: "WAI-GL" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 1:21 PM
> Subject: RE: Issue #1305
>
>
> >
> > > Test 15 - ALT text for images used as links must describe the link
> > > destination
> >
> > No, it must not. Alt text replaces the image; <a> describes the
> > destination, as with title="". Quit trying to rewrite the spec.
> >
> > <http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/objects.html#adef-alt>
> >
> > <http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/links.html#adef-href>,
> > additionally, states that the href attribute "specifies the location
> > of a Web resource, thus defining a link between the current element
> > (the source
> > anchor) and the destination anchor defined by this attribute."
> >
> > What defines the destination is <a>, not <img>. By spec. It's
> > cut-and-dried; the Working Group's attempts are incorrect and must be
> > removed.
> >
> > If I'm not mistaken, I got this wrong in my book. Let's not keep
> > getting it wrong.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >      Joe Clark | joeclark@joeclark.org
> >      Accessibility <http://joeclark.org/access/>
> >      Expect criticism if you top-post
> >
>
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 15 December 2004 14:33:35 GMT

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