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RE: Gudeline 2.5 Level 3 SC work item

From: Gregg Vanderheiden <gv@trace.wisc.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:19:48 -0600
To: "'Andi Snow-Weaver'" <andisnow@us.ibm.com>
Cc: "'John M Slatin'" <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>, <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-ID: <auto-000181774130@spamarrest.com>

Ok 
Lets focus on this latest one from Andi.  It seems to capture the issues
best.  I think this is two guidelines though - so I split it - with words in
brackets added to add one more technique. 


>From Andi (but split in two)

1) When user input is limited to a set of 10 or fewer known choices that can
be provided without jeopardizing security or purpose, choices can be
selected from a list instead of, or in addition to, typing. 

2) If there are more than 75 choices, selection lists must not be the only
means of providing the input choice. Another input method, such as a text
entry field, [text typing to select items from list], or a search function,
must be provided instead of, or in addition to, the selection list.

 
Gregg

 -- ------------------------------ 
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. 
Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
Director - Trace R & D Center 
University of Wisconsin-Madison 


-----Original Message-----
From: Andi Snow-Weaver [mailto:andisnow@us.ibm.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 9:50 AM
To: Gregg Vanderheiden
Cc: 'John M Slatin'; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: RE: Gudeline 2.5 Level 3 SC work item

I think my original wordier version was better in that regard. Here's a
slight re-write incorporating some of John's good suggestions.

When user input is limited to a set of 75 or fewer known choices that can
be provided without jeapordizing security or purpose, choices can be
selected from a list instead of, or in addition to, typing. If there are
more than 75 choices, selection lists must not be the only means of
providing the input choice. Another input method, such as a text entry
field or a search function, must be provided instead of, or in addition to,
the selection list.

I'm still not sure this is what we really want. This says that if there are
75 or fewer choices, you MUST provide a list AND you MAY also provide a way
to enter the information by typing. And if there are more than 75 known
choices, you MUST provide some way other than a selection list to enter the
information such as an entry field or a search function AND you MAY also
provide the selection list.

I'm sure we could come up with examples where there are 75 or fewer choices
but it still doesn't make sense to provide a selection list. What about
requiring the selection list when there are 10 or fewer choices and
requiring an alternative to selection lists when there are more than 75
choices? That would say that you have to have a selection list if there are
10 or fewer choices. You can do whatever you want if there are 11 to 75
choices. And if there are more than 75, you can't limit the input method to
a selection list.

The success criteria would then read:

When user input is limited to a set of 10 or fewer known choices that can
be provided without jeapordizing security or purpose, choices can be
selected from a list instead of, or in addition to, typing. If there are
more than 75 choices, selection lists must not be the only means of
providing the input choice. Another input method, such as a text entry
field or a search function, must be provided instead of, or in addition to,
the selection list.

Andi
andisnow@us.ibm.com
IBM Accessibility Center
(512) 838-9903, http://www.ibm.com/able
Internal Tie Line 678-9903, http://w3.austin.ibm.com/~snsinfo


                                                                           
             "Gregg                                                        
             Vanderheiden"                                                 
             <gv@trace.wisc.ed                                          To 
             u>                        "'John M Slatin'"                   
                                       <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>,    
             12/14/2004 12:09          Andi Snow-Weaver/Austin/IBM@IBMUS,  
             AM                        <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>                 
                                                                        cc 
                                                                           
                                                                   Subject 
                                       RE: Gudeline 2.5 Level 3 SC work    
                                       item                                
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           
                                                                           




I like it.

But maybe 75 is too high now for allowing them to enter by text as well.

I also wonder about requiring a list that contains all the city streets in
the US just because you happen to know what they are when you ask for
someones street name.


Gregg

 -- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
Director - Trace R & D Center
University of Wisconsin-Madison


-----Original Message-----
From: John M Slatin [mailto:john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu]
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 2:32 PM
To: Gregg Vanderheiden; Andi Snow-Weaver; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: RE: Gudeline 2.5 Level 3 SC work item

Gregg wrote:

<blockquote>
Looks like you captured it.
It is a bit long though.  Anyone see how to shorten it without changing
it or making it cryptic?  (maybe make it two items to start with...)
</blockquote>

OK, I'll bite. Here's another pass-- two items, total of 52 words (down
from 84).  May be too cryptic, though.

<proposed>
When user input is limited to a set of known choices that can be
provided without risking security or purpose, choices can be selected
from a list.

When user input is limited to aset that contains more than 75 choices,
choices may be selected from a list or entered by the user.
</proposed>

John

 -- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
Director - Trace R & D Center
University of Wisconsin-Madison


-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Andi Snow-Weaver
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:17 AM
To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: Gudeline 2.5 Level 3 SC work item


Yesterday, I took a work item to clarify Guideline 2.5 Level 3 SC number
1 to make it clear that selection lists of more than 75 entries should
be accompanied by some other means of providing the input so that screen
reader users are not required to listen to all items in a huge list in
order to provide input.

Current wording:

1. Where text entry is required for which there is a known set of less
than 75 valid choices and they can be provided without jeopardizing
security or purpose, users are allowed to select from a list of options
as well as to type the data directly.

Proposed wording:

1. When user input is limited to a set of known choices and they can be
provided without jeapordizing security or purpose, users are allowed to
select the choice from a list instead of, or in addition to, typing. If
there are more than 75 choices, selection lists must not be the only
means of providing the input choice. Another input method, such as a
text entry field or a search function, must be provided instead of, or
in addition to, the selection list.

Andi
andisnow@us.ibm.com
IBM Accessibility Center
Received on Tuesday, 14 December 2004 16:19:54 GMT

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