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Re: [w3c-wai-gl] <none> - techniques for understandable content

From: Lisa Seeman <lisa@ubaccess.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 10:54:38 +0200
To: John M Slatin <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>, Avi Arditti <aardit@voa.gov>
Cc: Chris Ridpath <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca>, WAI WCAG List <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-id: <009701c4c571$7a9a10b0$680aa8c0@IBMA4E63BE0B9E>

>. "SP" is an
> acronym I haven't met before. What does it stand for?
Sp - semantic pargmatic disorder.

> Another question, this time about SWAP or other tools from Ubaccess. Is
> it possible for WAP to gather up links that are embedded within main
> content (for example within a sentence in the middle of a paragraph) and
> move them to the end of the paragraph or section?
Yes, but we can do that better, and in a more logical order  once we have
semantic information about what links roles and relationships are

Note SWAP is a site tool and not , strictky speeking, and assistive
technology. In otherwords, SWAP can do this for a site, if the site has
installed SWAP.

I'm asking because a
> comment from WWAAC suggests a requirement that links be placed at the
> end of paragraphs or document sections rather than embedding them in
> content. I understand the rationale but am afraid that such a
> requirement would meet with very strong resistance. If this problem can
> be solved by user agents it would be very nice!
>
> Thanks.
> John
>
>
>
> "Good design is accessible design."
> John Slatin, Ph.D.
> Director, Accessibility Institute
> University of Texas at Austin
> FAC 248C
> 1 University Station G9600
> Austin, TX 78712
> ph 512-495-4288, f 512-495-4524
> email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu
> web http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lisa Seeman [mailto:lisa@ubaccess.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 1:28 am
> To: Avi Arditti; John M Slatin
> Cc: Chris Ridpath; WAI WCAG List
> Subject: Re: [w3c-wai-gl] <none> - techniques for understandable content
>
>
>
> Firstly I would like to volunteer to help here
>
> important notes of warning. The idea is not to write clearly, but to
> write clearly for people with disabilities.
>
> There are overlaps but there are also differences. For example, some
> friendly text might be conmen usage but is confusing for people with SP.
> For them longer words that says what it mean is easier to understand.
>
> For dyslexia layout issues may well take precedence over wording.
>
> Picture, in place of text, seems to be a winner, but you want to put
> pictures in the right place. Overloading a page with too many pictures
> can, for some people, make it harder to understand. For a symbol only
> page you need to significantly reduce the amount of content.
>
> There has been a lot of research on what actually works for people with
> disabilities. I suggest reviewing it. The best person I can think of
> contacting on this is Peter Ranger. He is working on compiling all the
> different research on the topic into a single resource. With your
> permission I will contact him.
>
> I put a lot of info gleaned form this research into
> http://www.ubaccess.com/ldweb.html.
> Bill has an edited version of it at http://www.webeone.org/ldweb/
>
> There is also effort to attach strong "how to" techniques to that
> document that anyone can join. I am also trying to get some of the
> "section 508" folks involved". The advantage being that there is no
> process involved and _no_ one asking the question "why would I want to
> include people with LD" - Just asking how.
>
>   Keep well
> L
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Avi Arditti" <aardit@voa.gov>
> To: "John M Slatin" <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>
> Cc: "Chris Ridpath" <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca>; <lisa@ubaccess.com>;
> "WAI WCAG List" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 6:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [w3c-wai-gl] <none>
>
>
> > Hi John,
> >
> > My friend Dr. Annetta Cheek was a guest of the Mexican government for
> > the launch of the "people's language" campaign. With her permission, I
>
> > am forwarding the report she sent to her bosses in the U.S.
> > government:
> >
> > ... The Secretary of Public Function (a relatively new organization in
>
> > the government) is sponsoring most of these initiatives.  They are
> > starting a major plain language initiative, and invited several
> > international guests for a kick-off week.  I was there along with a
> > linguist from the government of Sweden, a linguist from academia in
> > Spain, and a plain language advocate from the Plain Language
> > Commission in Britain, a private sector organization.
> >
> > It was a terrific few days.  Aside from the fact that they were great
> > hosts, it was exciting to see an attempt to start a plain language
> > initiative with support from the very top of the government.  On
> > Monday, the four international guests spent the day attending the
> > Mexican government's first plain language workshop.  They asked us to
> > comment on the workshop to make it better.
> >
> > On Tuesday, we took part in an event from 10 to 2:30.  In addition to
> > our panel, there were speakers from the Mexican government and a short
>
> > video of support from President Fox.  We were speaking to a crowd of
> > about 1000 government managers. The four international guests were
> > very pleased about how well our talks all fit together to make a
> > whole, and we hadn't even collaborated on it.  The government sponsors
>
> > were also very pleased about how it turned out.
> >
> > On Wed. we spoke to a small group of academics, to try to convince
> > them it was important to teach good, clear writing in academia from
> > the earliest grades.
> >
> > Aside from the terrific support this is getting from the government,
> > the most exciting part of the trip was learning that all four
> > international experts agreed on what techniques are important to plain
>
> > language.  I had expected that, since Spanish is a more formal
> > language than English, they would not be trying for sentences with an
> > average of 20 words, eliminating passive voice, and using pronouns.
> > But both the professor from Spain and the workshop developed in Mexico
>
> > advocated these principles, as did the representatives from UK and
> > Sweden.
> >
> > Everyone also agreed on a number of other techniques, including
> > focusing on the audience, structuring the document carefully,
> > designing the document for an easy to read appearance, using
> > informative headings, using tables and lists, and so on.  It was
> > exciting to see the agreement within the international community, and
> > talk to folks from different countries who are involved in plain
> > language efforts.
> >
> >
> >
> > John M Slatin wrote:
> > >
> > > In a few days I will be starting work on General Techniques for
> > > Guideline 3.1. I'll start by combing the WCAG and IG lists for
> > > comments on this one, and talking with colleagues in various modern
> > > language departments here and elsewhere. One important goal will be
> > > to come up with techniques that make sense not just for English but
> > > for other languages, especially non-Western languages. I invite
> > > those of you who have expertise in those languages to share your
> > > knowledge and insight.
> > >
> > > I'm especially interested in learning about textbooks on writing
> > > and/or other manuals, style guides, etc., for languages other than
> > > English.  In the United States there is a large body of theoretical
> > > and practical research on writing and writing instruction, and there
>
> > > are many textbooks and guides.  There it will be helpful to locate
> > > such things for other countries and languages-- and important to be
> > > mindful of the limitations, such as languages and cultures where
> > > comparable texts either don't exist or are much less common.
> > >
> > > I'm also interested in hearing from anyone who knows of readability
> > > tests for languages other than English. Ditto for plain language
> > > lexicons in languages other than English.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > > John
> > >
> > > "Good design is accessible design."
> > > John Slatin, Ph.D.
> > > Director, Accessibility Institute
> > > University of Texas at Austin
> > > FAC 248C
> > > 1 University Station G9600
> > > Austin, TX 78712
> > > ph 512-495-4288, f 512-495-4524
> > > email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu
> > > web http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org]
> > > On Behalf Of Chris Ridpath
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 8:48 am
> > > To: lisa@ubaccess.com; WAI WCAG List
> > > Subject: Re: [w3c-wai-gl] <none>
> > >
> > > > I would love to see some tests for clear writing...
> > > >
> > > This is a tricky one. I believe that there are tests for clear
> > > writing but, to be accurate, they require a large amount of expert
> > > involvement. There's also a very basic test, the FOG index, that
> > > gives a  rough indication of writing style. Right now, I'm not sure
> > > how we're going to test for this.
> > >
> > > I can perceive this requirement, clear writing, as an infringement
> > > on a person's right to freedom of expression so it may be difficult
> > > to enforce.
> > >
> > > > Not minimizing the real usefulness of this work, a lot of the
> > > > tests do
> > >
> > > > not guarantee conformance or accessibility, but are a useful as a
> > > > yard stick and as an alarm bell...
> > > >
> > > The goal of the test suite is that it can be used to test HTML
> > > content to see if it conforms to the guidelines. I hope we can come
> > > close to reaching that goal.
> > >
> > > Once the test suite is finished, I'd like to challenge authors to
> > > create pages that pass the test suite but are still have
> > > accessibility problems. And challenge authors to create pages fail
> > > the test suite but are still accessible. This process should help
> > > ensure the test suite is valid.
> > >
> > > > 3, puting the two points together. A sentence that has
> > > > a, a low reading age score,
> > > > b, a low number of conjunctions and comers,
> > > > c, is short
> > > > is probably clear and simple.
> > > >
> > > This seems to be heading in the right direction for it to be
> > > testable. But it would still require an expert to examine the text.
> > > Is this the sort of thing that guideline 3.1 means?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <lisa@ubaccess.com>
> > > To: "Chris Ridpath" <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca>; "WAI WCAG List"
> > > <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 7:35 AM
> > > Subject: [w3c-wai-gl] <none>
> > >
> > > > Looks like a lot of work Chris
> > > >
> > > > a few comments
> > > >
> > > > 1, I would love to see some tests for clear writing, which for
> > > > English
> > >
> > > > there are a lot. Are you writing them? 2, Not minimizing the real
> > > > usefulness of this work, a lot of the tests do not guarantee
> > > > conformance or accessibility, but are a useful as a  yard stick
> > > > and as
> > >
> > > > an alarm bell...
> > > >
> > > > The best yard stick is still testing your interface with people
> > > > with disabilities. It would be a shame for people to reduce the
> > > > amount of user testing. I would like to see something along
> > > > thoughs lines as a footnote on each test page.
> > > >
> > > > 3, puting the two points together. A sentence that has
> > > > a, a low reading age score,
> > > > b, a low number of conjunctions and comers,
> > > > c, is short
> > > > is probably clear and simple.
> > > >
> > > >  Certainly failing these "testable" criteria is a good alarm bell
> > > > that
> > >
> > > > you may want a rewrite. But to be safe, test with users with
> > > > Learning disabilities
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Keep well
> > > > Lisa Seeman
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
>
>
Received on Monday, 8 November 2004 09:01:33 GMT

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