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RE: Why Consensus? ...and how to raise issues

From: Lee Roberts <leeroberts@roserockdesign.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 23:17:59 -0600
To: "'WAI-GL'" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-ID: <185501c3c84a$f79f6760$6401a8c0@RoseRock.com>

Lisa brings up a good point and one that I'm concerned with.  Personally
I'm tired of the negatives we get from some people.  I would rather have
someone criticize with positive information than have to read a
condescending email.

I've not been able to meet on the teleconference because of the
obligations I have with my State government.  That has subsided for the
next month, but it looks like the next two weeks are non-call days due
to the holidays.

Thanks and Happy Holidays,
Lee

-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of lisa seeman
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 10:47 PM
To: 'WAI-GL'
Subject: RE: Why Consensus? ...and how to raise issues



The original point was about the need to encourage more people to
participate on this list.

Personally I am less likely to participate if there is a good chance
that I will get insulted on a publicly minuted list as a result. 

(You once asked Joe, why should we keep lists polite) 
 

All the best
Lisa Seeman
 
Visit us at the UB Access website
UB Access - Moving internet accessibility
 


-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Joe Clark
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 1:47 AM
To: WAI-GL
Subject: Re: Why Consensus? ...and how to raise issues



> important to keep coordinated on what everyone is doing. It is also
> helpful to attend because whether or not the group thought something 
> was a good idea or not often doesn't come through well in meeting 
> minutes.

Then fix your damned minutes. How hard can it be to write these things
down?

Is it not irresponsible for the Working Group to fail to document its
decisions and rationales?


> Even if you cannot go to the meetings, read the drafts and comment on
> them regularly. Send emails to the w3c-wai-gl and/or 
> [17]public-comments-wcag20@w3.org lists, pointing out the draft you're

> commenting on, the problem you have with it, and if at all possible,
> potential solutions.

That requirement is too onerous. It's certainly very nice to say that
critics must solve the problems they identify, but that is arguably what
W3C staff, PiGS, and politburo members with day jobs should be doing.
Half the time the issue involves a failure to read the W3C's own specs,
or a failure to simply provide examples from the real Web to back up
what they're saying.

If PiGS member A makes a statement, and some non-PiGS contributor X says
it's false and explains why, it is A's responsibility to fix it. It is
certainly nice if X or someone else solves it, but in a group as
notoriously incapable of spotting its own mistakes as this, merely
pointing them out must suffice.

Further, the converse of "participant in good standing" is not
"participant in bad standing." That requires a formal banning or
shunning and applies solely to former participants in good standing. The
converse of "participant in good standing" is a participant with no
standing at all. The values, essentially, are +1, 0, and -1, not +1 and
-1.

<http://www.w3.org/2003/06/Process-20030618/groups.html#good-standing>

--

  Joe Clark  |  joeclark@joeclark.org
  Author, _Building Accessible Websites_
  <http://joeclark.org/access/> | <http://joeclark.org/book/>
Received on Monday, 22 December 2003 00:20:22 GMT

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