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RE: Form and label element association

From: John M Slatin <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:29:19 -0600
Message-ID: <C46A1118E0262B47BD5C202DA2490D1A798D92@MAIL02.austin.utexas.edu>
To: "Maurizio Boscarol" <maurizio@usabile.it>, "Jens Meiert" <jens.meiert@erde3.com>
Cc: <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>

I don't think it's a good idea to put formatting instructions (such as
date format) in placeholder text.  For one thing, the instructions may
disappear as the user's data replaces the placeholder text, so the
instructions are no longer available to someone who may need them.

If it's necessary to provide such instructions, it's probably best to
include them in the <label> element for the <input>.  This way the
instructions will be visible to anyone who needs to see them, and will
be audible to people using screen readers.


"Good design is accessible design." 
Please note our new name and URL!
John Slatin, Ph.D.
Director, Accessibility Institute
University of Texas at Austin
FAC 248C
1 University Station G9600
Austin, TX 78712
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email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu
web http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility/


 



-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Maurizio Boscarol
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 10:22 am
To: Jens Meiert
Cc: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: Re: Form and label element association



From: "Jens Meiert"
> > [...] remember that placeholder text can be a useful format entry 
> > help: i.e., dd-mm-yyyy, or so.
>
> I disagree, since some users might have difficulties using it (if you 
> pass on e.g. JavaScript, the user is forced to remove all place 
> holders), and
even
> JavaScript effects might be irritating (what text was there before I
clicked
> it?). It's IMO better to display a sample text near the corresponding
field
> (and use the title attribute, too, which I perceive as a good 
> solution) -- that's usable as well as accessible.

I'm not against your proposal. A text near the field may be okay, but I
don't know the way non-sighted can use it (where should we put it? I
suppose *just before* the field...). I also think that putting the
format help text in the field is more compact, and the fact that it is
*inside* the field could help. But it's true that some people have
trouble using it. Also, the author should prevent placeholder text from
being processed if the user won't modify it... I suppose this is a
little too complicated for simple
sites: the outer field solution it's probably better.

But we need a good way to display format example text, anyway. The
guidelines should advice the better way to display them. Before the
field is ok? There's a proper markup to display them?...


Maurizio Boscarol
http://www.usabile.it
========================================
Ecologia dei siti web
http://www.ecologiadeisitiweb.it/
Hops Libri - A book to build a both usable and
accessible site in the real world (only italian)
========================================
Received on Wednesday, 10 December 2003 11:29:23 GMT

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