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RE: WCAG1.0 Checkpoint 10.5 - still valid?

From: Gregg Vanderheiden <gv@trace.wisc.edu>
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 12:32:14 -0600
To: "'Kynn Bartlett'" <kynn@idyllmtn.com>, "'Dave Shea'" <dave@mezzoblue.com>
Cc: <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-ID: <010c01c3be82$c4c6e1a0$c517a8c0@USD320002X>

Actually,  we should all (as individuals) be careful about making absolute
pronouncements for the group.  

"I think" is a good prefix to most statements of belief. 

On this topic I don't think we have made a formal finding as to whether
"until user agents" clauses can be fulfilled without a formal statement from

It is correct that this situation is a problem.  And we are avoiding it in
the new guidelines - at least explicitly.  

If this was the only thing that caused my site to fail AAA - I would have
thought that it was covered by today's user agents.   I will check on this

 -- ------------------------------ 
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. 
Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
Director - Trace R & D Center 
University of Wisconsin-Madison 

-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf
Of Kynn Bartlett
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 11:13 AM
To: Dave Shea
Cc: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: Re: WCAG1.0 Checkpoint 10.5 - still valid?

On Monday, December 8, 2003, at 10:34 PM, Dave Shea wrote:
> I'd suspect no decision has been formally made, but for my peace of my 
> mind, if I happen to fail this point and only this point in 2003, do I 
> pass or fail triple-A?

Currently, you "fail" triple-A, but this is a bug in the whole
WCAG 1.0 process to begin with.  There is method by which any
particular person or group was authorized to say that the "Until
user agents..." clauses have been met.  The page author is not
allowed to claim these clauses are fulfilled, and the working
group has not claimed that function either.

Therefore, there is no way you can achieve Triple-A compliance
with WCAG 1.0 unless you meet ALL the requirements, including
all of those that begin with "Until user agents..."  This is not
an accessibility issue, but a "formal procedures" issue.

It is for this reason that the "Until user agents..." clauses are
so disliked and opposed by many, including myself.  The plans for
WCAG 2.0 have long been to totally eliminate any such requirements
that are tied to a specific date in time with no way of certifying
that the conditions have been universally met.

This is just one of many reasons to consider WCAG 1.0 triple-A to
be effectively unreachable; there's little reason to pursue that as
a goal, and instead the goal should be to pursue increased
accessibility and usability for people with disabilities.


Kynn Bartlett <kynn@idyllmtn.com>                     http://kynn.com
Chief Technologist, Idyll Mountain                http://idyllmtn.com
Author, CSS in 24 Hours                       http://cssin24hours.com
Shock & Awe Blog                                http://shock-awe.info
Inland Anti-Empire Blog                   http://inlandantiempire.org
Received on Tuesday, 9 December 2003 13:33:12 UTC

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