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the need for marking up change of language

From: (wrong string) øgersen <thoeg@get2net.dk>
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:44:46 +0100
Message-ID: <003501c3ba64$66af0d30$c1226b3e@ct1>
To: <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>

Hi,

Screen readers like JAWS with multilingual synthesizers like Eloquence are
beginning to be able to swich language on the fly. In JAWS it has worked
since before version 4, or it mayh have been added in version 4, and with
the release of JFW 5  in september JAWS kan now identify the language if it
is marked up. The question is not tto markup every word that may originate
from other languages  e.g. English but to markup a block of text written in
a another language, and then hope that the screen reader has an installed
synthesizer that can speak this language, and you never know on the
devvelopper site of the webpage but that is life!

Also remember that for braille devices the same applies for reading
contracted braille.

Claus Thøgersen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jens Meiert" <
jens.meiert@erde3.com>

To: "Yvette P. Hoitink" <
y.p.hoitink@heritas.nl>

Cc: <
w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>

Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 12:12 PM
Subject: RE: Examples of language changes in websites

>
> > [...] Specifically, we were talking about the need to identify the
> language,
> > including language changes, since not doing so could lead to serious
> > accessibility problems.
>
> Well, can language really cause accessibility problems (more important:
when
> does it not)? First of all, each language vocabulary differs from another,
> second, even every person uses another vocabulary than the other. But to
> diagnose accessibility problems, you need a clear definition of each
language
> vocabulary by defining a standard set of words and terms each native
speaker
> -must- control (can anybody really say what all fellow countrymen
understand?).
>
> Assuming that there is such a virtual standard set for each language, you
at
> first had to decrease the maximum (native) vocabulary about maybe 98%
> whereby having set a minimum age for this set to about 10 years. You also
pass on
> every non-native term to ensure that you can offer that accessibility you
> want. -- What I exaggeratedly show here is that you IMO try to find a way
to an
> ill-defined goal.
>
> Due to this ill-defined goal, there is no chance for either recommending
or
> banning or judging anything, neither for you nor the WAI WG. Me, I
perceive
> the WAI as an initiative suggesting how you've got fewest problems in
reaching
> your audience, although I understand your feel of maybe powerlessness when
> noticing a language soup everywhere, but this is normal and (again)
> self-regulating, and it also supports everyone's ability to -increase- his
vocabulary
> (what a beautiful impact).
>
> > [...] Making a page such as the LogicaCMG one
> > accessible would require, in my opinion, that each English phrases is
> > identified as such.
>
> Why? Making clear that 'email' is English, or 'Nachricht' ist German? Does
> it make sense? -- How? Visually highlighting it to irritate users once
more
> when visiting an almost colored site? Semantically pronouncing it to
complicate
> author's work and to allow the desired effect deflagrate?
>
> > My task as I saw it was to come up with examples where language changes
> > would lead to accessibility problems. [...]
>
> Did you really prove that there are accessibility problems or did you
merely
> prove that international companies use a mix of languages? -- I think that
> there are rather -guessed- problems than real problems, or did you test
these
> interfaces? Ain't most users also affected by the mix in e.g. advertising,
> when most of all larger companies use English slogans, everywhere you
look? Do
> you want to intervene only related to the Web, or do you want to start a
> campaign to free the world from all these guessed problems?
>
> -- Well, maybe I'm wrong, but there are so many issues I see in this case
> that they are hard to ignore. Finally, I recommend to pass on every
influence
> related to language use except when you use e.g. hyperlinks to sources in
> another language or include cites on your site written in another language

(and
> there already are solutions for these de facto accessibility -- or
usability
> -- problems).
>
>
> Best regards,
>  Jens.
>
>
> --
> Jens Meiert
> Interface Architect
>
>
http://meiert.com/
>
Received on Thursday, 4 December 2003 07:45:07 GMT

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