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RE: Title on image: [techs] Latest HTML Techniques Draft

From: John M Slatin <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:49:45 -0600
Message-ID: <C46A1118E0262B47BD5C202DA2490D1A798D21@MAIL02.austin.utexas.edu>
To: "Sailesh Panchang" <sailesh.panchang@deque.com>, <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
The alt text on an image link can (for example) identify the destination
of the link; the title attribute could indicate (for example) that the
link opens in a new browser window.  This would maintain the purpose of
the alt attribute (to provide a text equivalent that conveys the same
information and serves the same purpose as the image) and allow use of
the title to provide context and orientation information, as Sailesh
I would be happy as both user and designer if screen readers supported
this behavior-- especially if they also reported screen text *and* title
for text anchors (when the screen text and the title are different, that

"Good design is accessible design." 
Please note our new name and URL!
John Slatin, Ph.D.
Director, Accessibility Institute
University of Texas at Austin
FAC 248C
1 University Station G9600
Austin, TX 78712
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email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu
web http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility/

-----Original Message-----
From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Sailesh Panchang
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 1:40 pm
To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Subject: Re: Title on image: [techs] Latest HTML Techniques Draft

I beg to differ. Alt provides  a short desc for the image. Title can be
used in certain situations to provide  additional info about the image-
context or grouping, etc and can be used quite effectively for the
benefit of vision impaired users. Some browsers  display the title as a
tool tip / on the status bar that can be accessed by sighted users as
	When an image is made a link and is accompanied by a  redundant
text link ( section 9.3 of HTML techniques doc), it is OK as the doc
suggests to have a null alt (and a null title if I might add).   That
does not mean alt should not be  used on images or image links and
accordingly the techniques doc does not suggest that as it suggests that
title should not be used with IMG element.
	The most effective   way to convey the destination of an image
that is a link (and has no adjacent text link) is through the alt and
again the title on the IMG is not needed. Title attribute in the anchor
might  help for instance if the image link conveys a grouping not
apparent to a non sighted user. 
	While browser support for longdesc  will improve over time  and
become consistent (I hope), it can be used to provide a fuller
describtion   of any image when circumstances warrant ... not just
charts and tables.
	----- Original Message ----- 
	From: Lee Roberts <mailto:leeroberts@roserockdesign.com>  
	To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org 
	Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:27 PM
	Subject: RE: Title on image: [techs] Latest HTML Techniques
	Longdesc should be described as a link to another document that
explains what the image is about and how it works if it is a chart or
table.  Note the _link_.
	The TITLE attribute can be used on the Anchor, but not in the
<img> tag.  The TITLE attribute should not be used on an image that is
used for navigation.  However, as the Anchor is used it can provided
useful information using the TITLE attribute.
	I hope this helps.
	Lee Roberts
	-----Original Message-----
	From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org
[mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Sailesh Panchang
	Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 11:25 AM
	To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
	Subject: Title on image: [techs] Latest HTML Techniques Draft
		Section 10.2 says:
		Also while the title attribute can be used on most
elements, it should not be used on the img element. The semantics of
title are too easily confused with alt and longdesc... and browser
support is inconsistent.  
		Comment: This is a retrograde step... the title
attribute is an excellent  vehicle for conveying context / navigation
specific info and  should be retained. What is needed is  more education
on the correct use of alt, title and longdesc. Also consistent browser
implementation   for these attributes should  be encouraged through user
agent guidelines.
		So the HTML tech doc should not suggest that title not
be used on images.
		Sailesh Panchang
		Senior Accessibility Engineer 
		Deque Systems,11180  Sunrise Valley Drive, 
		4th Floor, Reston VA 20191
		Tel: 703-225-0380 Extension 105 
		E-mail: sailesh.panchang@deque.com
		Fax: 703-225-0387
		* Look up <http://www.deque.com> *
Received on Wednesday, 3 December 2003 15:50:04 UTC

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